Ouch Podcast #50 – April 2010
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr

The Ouch Podcast is a download from the BBC. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.

[Jingle 
O U C H spells Ouch]

MAT	I love that song. Hi, I'm Mat Fraser.
LIZ	And I'm Liz Carr. 
MAT	You're Liz who? 
LIZ	Carr-rr-rr-rr. 
MAT	Oh what beautiful dulcet tones you have retained. 
LIZ	I know, I know it's lovely to be back, sorry I had to pull a sickie last month with my appalling voice. [whispery voice] Hello. 
MAT	Yeah I know, you did, you sounded like Marge Simpson down the phone. 
LIZ	Yeah it was fantastic.
MAT	Oh speaking of people who sound like Marge Simpson, Rob from Spaceships Are Cool, who give us that theme tune, get better soon love, I know you've got flu. 
LIZ	So this is our 50th show. 
MAT	50! 5 – 0. 
LIZ	5 – 0. Is that as old as you? 
MAT	Not quite.
LIZ	Not quite. 
MAT	Because that's, erm, because I'm in year terms, Liz... 
LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	... and we're talking about monthly terms. 
LIZ	Yes. You mean we didn't start in 1960? 
MAT	No we didn't. 
LIZ	Before the Beatles. 
MAT	No, no, not? the Beatles. 
LIZ	Oh okay. So being our 50th show we're going to be taking a bit of a trip down memory lane. 
MAT	Oh great. 
LIZ	We've got a few clips you may or may not remember, plus you might learn a few things about the show that you didn't know. 
MAT	I did ask for a bottle of champagne to celebrate.
LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	Apparently we're not allowed it, it's been banned by the BBC now. 
LIZ	I thought that was because of our medications. 
MAT	Well it would certainly make them more interesting. 
LIZ	Make me a little bit squiffy. 
MAT	Joining us shortly in the studio our freelance albino reviewer. 
LIZ	He's reviewing albinos? 
MAT	He is, you grammatical pedant, Rob Crossan who will be here to skew the disability news agenda to his particular way of thinking.  
LIZ	And wow, on the phone from a quarantine room in a Sydney hospital later it's this guy. 
[Playing clip]
Whilst maintaining to blood pressure 
And holding down nausea 
I'm waging a war on the frigging world of bacteria
So come on bacteria, come out where I can see you
I'll show you little pools for giving me diarrhoea.
That's Christiaan Van Vuuren aka the Fully Sick Rapper. He pains to point out that he is genuinely 'very sick', in the old fashioned sense of the word. Yes he is.
MAT	Our quiz, Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetables comes back to haunt us. Have you got a slight visual impairment? 
BRIAN	Yes.
LIZ	Do you use a white cane? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you have a guide dog?
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you have an assistance...? 
MAT	Find out if we correctly guess what's wrong with this month's contestant later. 
LIZ	We're on the web at bbc.co.uk/ouch where you can read lots of interesting articles, go to our message board, watch videos and lots more. That's bbc.co.uk/ouch. Wow our 50th. 
MAT	I was remembering back when we started.
LIZ	Oh yes.
MAT	We used to do it in a tiny little studio didn't we, we borrowed it off Radio London or something didn't we? 
LIZ	I think we did. Apparently that's not even there anymore. 
MAT	God that's how old it is as long ago. 
LIZ	Times have changed. 
MAT	And who did we have in those early... because I remember... 
LIZ	We have Steve. 
MAT	... going back... we had Steve our lovely engineer. Hello Steve. Also I remember going away from the second one and emailing you or ringing you and, "God that was awful, Liz, that was so unfunny." And then hearing it back and thinking, "My God we've really hit upon something, this is really different." 
LIZ	Yeah. I remember being approached to do the podcast and not even knowing what one was. What? What is this? And now every, you know, it's so much more of a common term isn't it? In fact we're not, we're not a podcast now. 
MAT	Well now it's a Talk Show. 
LIZ	We're a Talk Show. 
MAT	We've outgrown ((podcastery – sic)). 
LIZ	One of our big changes. So have you had a good month, Mat, are you all right? 
MAT	I'm working my little boobs off. 
LIZ	Okay. 
MAT	I've got two days off this month. 
LIZ	Nice. 
MAT	I'm doing lots of disability stuff. I've just been doing the diversity 'so you want to make your website accessible', the diversity ‘learning how to DVD in-house BBC DVD thing’. 
LIZ	Like it. 
MAT	It was good fun. That's pretty much it. I'm doing gigs up and down the land, you know, in inaccessible places and talking to inaccessible faces – yeah? 
LIZ	Hmm that sounds good. 
MAT	A bit of poetry there. 
LIZ	Poetry you're inspired by the Fully Sick Rapper. 
MAT	Yeah. 
LIZ	I can see. 
MAT	I am. I'm going to say this now while he's not listening. 
LIZ	Go on. 
MAT	Sounds a little bit like Falco. 
LIZ	Rock Me Amadeus. 
MAT	Yeah. [singing] Amadeus, Amadeus, Ama--... oh that's enough. 
LIZ	But he has... 
MAT	Copyright, copyright. 
LIZ	Oh no stop. Well I'm just glad to be here because I've got the workman in. I've got people doing the garden. 
MAT	You've got the painters in? 
LIZ	I've got the gardeners in. 
MAT	Oh no hold on that's a bit confusing. 
LIZ	No not the lady gardeners, before you say it, no we're digging, doing a lot of digging. 
MAT	So why what's going on? 
LIZ	Because I'm having my garden made all beautiful for the summer. I've lived there five years and haven't done anything. I don't know if you remember, in fact one of the shows we... 
MAT	We had Rob, didn't we go round to do a bit of gardening for you? 
LIZ	Rob was PA-ing for me and he went round to garden and he quite enjoyed it I think, he had quite green fingers and red eyes. And it was good. 
MAT	And white hair. 
LIZ	I've done nothing and it's lovely. But they came round today to deliver a skip right and they were late. And I'm in the kitchen sort of hiding and I'm going, "Don't pay them the full rate. Don't pay them the full rate." And Jo, my partner, she's going, she said, "Come out in your wheelchair" she said, "because, you know, a little lady, a sick little lady confronting them there's no way they'll take all the money." And I was too scared – can you believe that? I didn't play the game. 
MAT	What? 
LIZ	I actually stayed in the kitchen, she went out and paid and I should have shouldn't I? I'd have got a discount wouldn't I?
MAT	Did you not get your discount? 
LIZ	No we didn't get... I said we should take twenty quid off, for whatever, for them being late and I'm sure she's right that if I'd have done it and wheeled out and been all cripply I'd have got my discount. 
MAT	You're not usually shy of using your disability to get a discount, Liz, are you? 
LIZ	I know. 
MAT	I've even started accepting, you know, when some people from - hmm how shall we put it – other cultures sometimes just give you money. 
LIZ	Oh yes. 
MAT	And I used to throw it back and go, "I don't need it, don't you understand that's rude!" and now I'm like, "Oh great have you got anymore?" 
LIZ	"What you've only given me a pound?"
MAT	Yeah "Can I have a fiver?" Anyway, sorry we should... shall we do some emails? 
LIZ	Let's do some emails. 
MAT	Oh look okay. We've got Melanie now from the location of Scotland. "Hi Mat and Liz. I heard a fabulous new phrase for wheelchair users today" hold on a sec Liz I think you'd better do this one.
LIZ	"I subscribe to an American journal for people with spinal injuries and almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read the 'Butt surfers'," no Mat keep quiet. "I thought it was a refreshing new way of describing us. I've been a butt surfer for eight years after a spinal cord injury. What do you think, could butt surfing catch on?"
MAT	Depends. 
LIZ	Well, Melanie, I think butt surfing's been around for quite a while. 
MAT	Moving on. 
LIZ	For those in chairs and not. 
MAT	Moving on ooh from Joe Clark in Toronto "In the February show you talked about non disabled actors playing disabled roles... 
LIZ	Uh-oh!
MAT	... mentioning Sam Worthington in Avatar specifically. The actor absolutely had to be able to walk and move around in that film since in fact the character was paralysed some of the time and literally super new humanly agile the rest of the time." It goes on to say "for a better example of an AB playing a crip look at Kevin McHale who plays Artie on Glee." 
LIZ	Oh Glee!
MAT	Now I get your point, Joe Clark, and yes Kevin playing Artie certainly is an example of that. Small point though when the character in Avatar is walking he's not real, he's actually made up in a computer so it could be actually be played by anybody.
LIZ	He is actually an Avatar. 
MAT	But it's a good one. Thanks for sort of agreeing. 
LIZ	Actually it's a real common one isn't it that "yes, yes, disabled people should be playing those parts, but there are times when it's not right like when you do a retrospective look back on the…
MAT	Well hold on, when you do the what happened before the accident scene... 
LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	No I'm sorry because in 1997 for ITV, sorry BBC, I was in a production where me, the blind guy and the wheelchair user all pretended to be able bodied for the before the bomb hit us scene and it worked fine. So shoe on t'other foot my friend. 
LIZ	Wow, wow, wow. And I'm trying desperately to think of the film where there's an actor with no legs where they... 
MAT	Morris... 
LIZ	... religiously removed his... 
MAT	Morris Frump. 
LIZ	Yes that's the one yes. 
MAT	That's it. 
LIZ	In... 
MAT	In Forest Gump. 
LIZ	In Forest Gump yes. So really it doesn't matter whether you've got legs or not or arms or not they digitally... 
MAT	They can take them away. 
LIZ	... take them out. 
MAT	And they can paint them in. 
LIZ	Bizarre isn't it? 
MAT	Can't they? 
LIZ	It's bizarre. I saw Avatar anyway and thought... 
MAT	What did you think? 
LIZ	Thought it was rubbish. Thought what... it felt a bit like The Emperor's New Clothes – a bit like what? Oh dear God. 
MAT	Did you see it in 3D?
LIZ	Oh yeah I saw it at an IMAX in 3D you couldn't do anything else... 
MAT	Right, okay. 
LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 
MAT	Okay. So you gave it a good shot? 
LIZ	Gave it a good shot and I just thought a bit like, well for a first it's got a wheelie who essentially sells out a whole lot of culture just because he wants a cure. And the second things is technologically it might be great but they're just blue people running around. This email came in, Louise Manuel. 
MAT	Manwell? 
LIZ	Manwell. Let's not go there. 
MAT	Okay. 
LIZ	We don't want to do any jokes about that. She heard us talking about non disabled actors playing disabled roles and this was her view. She said, "So what's sauce for the goose and all that what's your position regarding Ryan Kelly who plays Jazzer in the Archers?" So I don't know if you know... 
MAT	A blindy playing a see-er? 
LIZ	Yeah. 
MAT	Erm, my friend, Ricky Biddle, a black actor thinks that black people should be able to white up and white people should be able to black up. And I said to him yes when there is a level playing field of opportunity we can all play each other. But as historically we've never been allowed to play ourselves I think a bit of the sort of shoe on the other foot until everything's equal... 
LIZ	So that's all right. 
MAT	... is all right. I've got one here from Sally Webster, an email, and she says we help her sleep. Thanks very much. Nice compliment Sally. 
LIZ	No but it is because we make her sleep and she wonders if we can go fortnightly? 
MAT	Oh because she's got insomnia? 
LIZ	Whey!
MAT	Well we'll try to help you I suppose. 
LIZ	We'll do our best, Sally, who knows. Clem Fletcher you've just discovered the podcast, thank you very much. But you say you often don't talk about people with hidden disabilities. You say "I recognise the difficulties visual disabilities bring but I would like to hear more about the exact opposite." 
MAT	Poor people with invisible disabilities. 
LIZ	I know. It must be awful to look totally normal. 
MAT	It's kind of like bisexuals isn't it not respect of (inaudible) community. 
LIZ	Innies and outies aren't they? 
MAT	Yes. They don't know what they are, how to behave, who they belong to. 
LIZ	I know. 
MAT	It's a shame isn't it? 
LIZ	They're sort of without a group to belong to aren't they? 
MAT	Hm. But you know what? 
LIZ	It's awful. 
MAT	Not my problem. Anyway, so... 
LIZ	Anyway no, keep writing in. 
MAT	No in all seriousness sorry, Kate, I know we do have a laugh with that. Of course we support people with invisible disabilities. 
LIZ	But really... 
MAT	Liz. 
LIZ	Are you really that hidden, do you know what I mean? You know you've got somebody say, for example, with epilepsy, they're not that hidden when they're fitting all over the place are they? 
MAT	But they're not are they? 
LIZ	Just saying. You know that person with mental health problems when they're in the straitjacket they're not exactly hidden. I'm just saying. 
MAT	The naked guy with the Y-fronts and the gaffer tape over his face in the underground station tube that's pretty obviously mental. 
LIZ	It's just kind of... I know what you're saying... don't worry it's not... I do get it and there's a totally different types of discrimination I think when you've got a hidden impairment. But there's also hidden impairments aren't always so hidden maybe. Just saying. 
MAT	You know the mistake we've made? 
LIZ	What? 
MAT	Getting serious. 
LIZ	Huh! 
MAT	We should have just kept it fun. 
LIZ	Okay. It was funny wasn't it – sorry. 
MAT	Now Kate Giles says, "I've just noticed on the iTunes podcast service that it only starts at 19, is there a way of accessing the previous 19 podcasts?" A lot of people have asked this Kate and we get... here's the answer basically. There's a boring techy reason why that's the case. Kate, if you want to hear all of our shows going back to the first one in March 2006 point your browser to bbc.co.uk/ouch and click on podcast on the left hand side, they're all there. You'll have to download them one by one to your computer and transfer them then to your iPod, or you can listen on your computer just by clicking the play button on the screen. Email us and tell us if you manage okay. And that goes out to any other listeners as well. 
LIZ	Get you knowing the technological malarkey. 
MAT	I'm only reading the script, Liz. 
LIZ	Oh that's true, that's true. 
MAT	Okay. 
LIZ	And the final, final email Mat. 
MAT	Now hold on a sec before we go on any further... 
LIZ	Yeah. 
MAT	I know that you actually are scared of children. I want to precurse (sic) this email. 
LIZ	Well we did discuss it, we did discuss the fact that I hate approaching children and them approaching me because I get all a bit oh God they're going to stare and say ridiculous things. Yes I'm scared of children. 
MAT	Okay. So now read on. Do you want to read it or shall I? 
LIZ	Go on tell me what's come through on mailbox. 
MAT	Bill Mayer from Tampa Bay, "I listened intently about your hurt when children are afraid of you."
LIZ	It was hurt actually Bill, thank you. 
MAT	"Kids, Liz, are like dogs"
LIZ	Okay. 
MAT	"They're afraid of what they don't understand... 
LIZ	Little bitches. 
MAT	... and don't know how to hide. Frigging adults do. Most kids are afraid of Santa Claus and other characters like Mickey Mouse... 
LIZ	Is he saying I'm like a fantasy character? 
MAT	You're somewhere between Santa Claus, a large man with a beard and a nine foot mouse. "Most kids are afraid... 
LIZ	I'm a hairy rodent essentially. 
MAT	"Most kids are afraid of any new adult." Hm where's this going? "I know my daughter is shy of any new people and will just stare at them so your disability pretty much has nothing to do with the way kids treat you when they meet. In any case just ignore them. Children should be seen and not heard." Now you're talking sense. "Also all kids are disabled until they're 24 because they're frontal cortex is not developed until 24. So just treat kids as disabled and stare back at them. Finally, if you want to break through to them I suggest you talk to them several times on the telephone and let them get to know you without them seeing you. After that they will greet you like a long lost aunt." Hm. "Also giving candy helps a whole lot." So hold on "I hope you read this. If you do read it I hope you try it, here's a book that helped me break through to people and kids it's called 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. 
LIZ	How to win and influence children. 
MAT	Now listen. 
LIZ	Sum that up for me then, Mat, please. 
MAT	Okay. What I think he's asking you to do is to call up the child without them knowing who you are and go "Hello, hello, little child" then wait outside the school gates staring at them. 
LIZ	So they get used to me. 
MAT	Yeah and then when they approach you finally, offer them sweets. 
LIZ	Well thank you, Bill. 
MAT	Nice one Bill. He's got a lot of other books as well apparently. 
LIZ	No thank you everyone this month for your emails. Don't forget to contact us as ever at ouch@bbc.co.uk, and we will laugh and talk and enjoy your emails next month. Thank you.  
MAT	In about ten minutes we'll be rubbing ourselves in alcohol gel and saying hello to the Fully Sick Rapper in quarantine in Sydney, but for now Rob Crossan's here with the news. Hi, Rob. 
ROB	Hello Matthew. 
MAT	Now... 
ROB	Happy 50th by the way. 
LIZ	Happy 50th you're looking well. 
MAT	And you're looking no older than you did 48 episodes ago. 
ROB	And it's quite a good life expectancy really isn't it?
MAT	It's a very good life expectancy.
ROB	For a crip - 50 not bad. 
MAT	But do you remember when you started with us?
LIZ	Oh yes. 
ROB	It wasn't the very first one going to Hamleys, was it going to Hamleys and finding the cripperly piggerly – was it that one? 
MAT	Oh... 
ROB	No it wasn't, no it wasn't the very first one was I had to go and vox pop – ugh – to go on the streets around Marylebone High Street to ask people if they knew anyone who had a disability or not. Such a lame idea. We've got so much better since then. 
LIZ	Haven't we come a long way? Well okay take because we're being a bit nostalgic obviously. 
MAT	Yeah we are. 
LIZ	So I want to take you back to we think it's your second appearance. 
MAT	That's right. 
LIZ	Where we sent you to Trafalgar Square – ringing any bells? 
ROB	Yes it is. Sadly yes. 
LIZ	There was the statue of disabled artist Alison Lapper in Trafalgar Square, well we've got a little clip we want to play you of that. 
MAT	Let's have a listen, let's have a listen. 
[Playing clip
The Ouch podcast. 
Mat : So Rob are you with us? 
Rob: Yes I'm here. 
Mat: Okay, great. Rob, there's a little something we want you to do for us while you're there. 
Rob: Right. 
Mat:  We sent our researcher, Emma out with you as you know, could you just... 
Rob: Yes. 
Mat: ... tap on her shoulder and ask her for your present? 
Rob: For my present? 
Liz: Your present.
Rob: Emma could I have my present please?
Emma: No 
Rob: Oh Jesus Christ! It's an enormous, enormous megaphone. 
Liz: You see what it is, Rob, we want you to pay homage to the great white disability goddess standing there pregnant under the moon in central London, shoring up all our rights and identities. So okay put megaphone to mouth.
Rob: Yes. 
Liz: And repeat after us. 
Rob: Okay I will. 
Liz and Mat: Oh Alison Lapper.
Rob: Oh Alison Lapper.
Liz and Mat: Aren't you nice. 
Rob: Say that again? 
Liz and Mat: Aren't you nice. 
Rob: Aren't you nice. 
Liz and Mat: You are our disability role model. 
Rob: You are our disability role model. 
Liz and Mat: And we really liked you on that 'Child of our Time' thing.
Rob: And we really liked you on that 'Child of our Time' thing. 
Liz and Mat: Even if you...]
LIZ	Your head's buried. 
ROB	It went on forever. 
MAT	God you've gone, oh no you have gone red sorry. 
ROB	Redder. 
LIZ	And to think there was four and a half hours of that poem. 
ROB	Yeah. If only it was a (inaudible)
LIZ	Thank God we've learnt editing since then. 
MAT	Heady days though. And, you know... 
ROB	Seamus Heaney was terribly jealous wasn't he? 
MAT	The things we've made you do over the years. We've had you scaling up walls, spending the night in funny little colleges – all sorts of things. 
ROB	Taking me to a toilet in Heathrow airport under the misapprehension that I was going to Lourdes. That was annoying. 
MAT	It did seem quite cruel on the part... 
ROB	It was.
MAT	... of Damon Rose our producer I thought. 
LIZ	Your little case and your toothbrush. 
ROB	I know, my passport and I'm so excited. 
MAT	I actually genuinely felt guilty about that one. 
ROB	But it was pre-recession I thought yeah they can probably afford it. Now I'd be thinking no chance I wouldn't even turn up. 
LIZ	We're glad you're still with us, Rob. 
ROB	Yeah does it prove how desperate freelancers get? 
LIZ	Come on. 
MAT	So accessibly... hmm accessibility rather can be expensive and inconvenient on the railways.
ROB	How long do you think it takes if you're a disabled person to cross a platform – from one platform to the other? 
LIZ	About five minutes. 
MAT	Five minutes? 
ROB	How about three quarters of an hour? 
LIZ	Ooh!
ROB	This is what happened to Julie Cleary at Staplehurst station in Kent. She wanted to use the lift to get to the other platform, it was unmanned so she phoned up National Rail enquiries and was told that the best thing to do was to take a train to Ashford, 45 minutes in the opposite direction and then go back on herself from there. Amazing! You can't beat efficiency on the British railways. And yeah Ruth Scott of disability charity, Scope, says, "It's extraordinary to make a 45 mile round trip just to cross another platform which was only yards away." And I just wonder have we had anything like this you can think of extremely awkward, awkward disability transport moments? 
MAT	No I mean... 
LIZ	Personally...
MAT	... that beats most of the ones I've ever heard of... 
LIZ	Yeah no it does. 
MAT	... that's ridiculous. 
LIZ	I think what's shocking though is that it's still happening. I think, you know, and actually when we began the podcast a few years back, even before that, you would hear of those horror stories all the time. So I think that's what surprised me is that that sort of rubbish is still happening, do you know what mean? That's just bonkers isn't it, it really is. But no... 
ROB	You're just not going to go out are you, what possible motivation do you have to go out ever if that's the kind of, you know, choice that presents itself to you. 
LIZ	And how painful you see the platform it's like, "Well there it is." 
ROB	I'd almost be tempted to get a lasso or something like that. 
LIZ	Yeah. 
ROB	And haul myself over. 
LIZ	No that's beyond boundaries isn't it? 
ROB	Yeah. 
LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 
MAT	Well that's why we keep saying that joke isn't it – the real beyond boundaries will be to try to get from London to Glasgow unaided as a disabled person without warning anybody you're going to be coming and see if it's possible. 
ROB	That's the impossible dream. 
MAT	Yeah. 
LIZ	Well it is easier to cross the Andes isn't it? 
ROB	Yeah because at least you'd probably have a film crew behind you saying you're really brave while you're doing it. 
LIZ	And pushing you. 
ROB	Yeah. 
LIZ	Go on, go on the rails, go on, go on. 
MAT	What's this "More than the full complement of digits?" 
ROB	It's a new world record. It's a boy in China with 31 fingers and toes.
MAT	Aahh hey! 
ROB	And you're going to enjoy this... well. 
LIZ	Is he co-joined? 
ROB	Fantastic radio as it is, I've got a photo of it would you to see? 
MAT	I want to see him play piano. 
ROB	Or shall I put this on the website? 
MAT	Yes let's have a look. 
ROB	There is it.
MAT	Oh my – what? 
LIZ	How many toes? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight toes on one foot. 
MAT	That is so toe sharp.
ROB	No it's 16 toes and 15 fingers. 
MAT	I'm going to try and describe it. Liz, I think your powers of description are better than mine. The hand, the skeletal x ray of the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven fingered hands look like sort of spider hands or something don't they – spider hand. 
LIZ	You're right. 
MAT	But the toes, that's just impossible that looks like a ((0:21:00.1?)) that looks like a picture of two feet that's been spliced together twice. 
LIZ	It's great. You wouldn't want to wear flip-flops would you? 
ROB	Absolutely not. Any kind of footwear would be mildly annoying. 
MAT	Even Clark's would be hard pressed to fit that foot in. 
LIZ	And they're good for wide fitting aren't they, you're right yeah. 
ROB	We all know that. 
LIZ	Yeah we've had them. 
ROB	And what's even more extraordinary is that it keeps the current world record which I thought would be maybe, you know, 12 - the current world record is 25, and just been beaten by 31. And this kid's only six. Does it mean he'll grow more as he enters adolescence? 
LIZ	Wow!
MAT	Oh my God. But imagine the jazz chords that kid's going to be able to play if he's allowed to play piano. Please parents of the boy with seven fingers on each hand let him play jazz. 
ROB	Yes exactly. Well those arpeggios are going to storming aren't they? 
LIZ	You'll be joining him in the freak show Mat. A four minute long ((0:21:46.5?)) 
ROB	This one needs to go to Coney Island absolutely. 
MAT	No I'm not having him anywhere near - I'll lose my status. 
ROB	Yeah that's true you would. 
LIZ	Okay. So yes the headlines... 
ROB	The stories that... the headlines that I would have liked to have seen but didn't. 
LIZ	That's the ones. 
ROB	Yeah that's right. "Crip who took a dip, had a slip, broke his hip and choked on a pip called bad luck a bit of a blip." 
MAT	Nice. 
ROB	And a good one is "Man with 31 toes to be made into cartoon character 'Hong Kong shooey'." 
MAT	Yes. 
LIZ	Thank you Rob. 
ROB	Okay. 
LIZ	Until 51. 
ROB	See you on 51. 
LIZ	See you soon. 
ROB	Yeah 51 not out. All right, bye. 
[Jingle: Mat Fraser, Liz Carr, BBC.co.uk/ouch]
MAT	Still to come are Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable parlour game, but now on the line, hello Christiaan Van Vuuren. 
CHRISTIAAN	Hello, guys. How're you going?
MAT	All right, nice to have you on the line. 
CHRISTIAAN	Well thank you very much, lovely to be on the line. 
MAT	Okay, there's a bit of a delay because not only are we talking to you in Sydney, but we're apparently talking to you inside a quarantine place in a ward in a hospital in Sydney – correct? 
CHRISTIAAN	That's correct yeah. I'm in quarantine. 
LIZ	Well Christiaan's causing a bit of a stir on the web at the moment because he's got videos and songs parodying his situation so let's here a clip. 

[Playing clip

Come on bacteria, come out where I can see yer 
I'll show you little fools for giving me diarrhoea
Finding these small things is harder than it seems
I'm struggling with cleaning and ((0:23:19.3?)) and everything. 
I'm a germaphobe, I'm a germaphobe phobe, I'm a germaphobe, I'm a germaphobe phobe.]

That's Germaphobe by Christiaan.   
MAT	Wow!
LIZ	We're going to play out with that later on. 
MAT	Christiaan, are you like the boy in the bubble then?
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah I'm kind of like that yeah. 
MAT	Are you allergic to everything? 
CHRISTIAAN	Well no it's sort of more to protect the rest of the world from me actually. 
MAT	Oh my God. 
CHRISTIAAN	Or the rest of Australia anyway. 
MAT	What's the story, mate? This is intriguing. 
LIZ	Where are you now? 
CHRISTIAAN	Right now I'm in a hospital in Sydney. Basically I was diagnosed with tuberculosis. 
MAT	Whoa, whoa, whoa hold on a sec. That's something out of a Charles Dickens' novel. What are you talking about tuberculosis I thought they got rid of that in Victorian times, what's going on? 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah a lot of people think that too and I sort of, when I was told, that I had tuberculosis I was kind of like, "What tuberculosis, a what a saurus uh?" I had no idea really what tuberculosis was because it's not something that we get in Australia at all. 
MAT	No. 
CHRISTIAAN	But it's just sort of something that I suppose due to the increase in globalisation and the increase in sort of people travelling overseas it's starting to happen a bit more often now. I sort of turned out to have what we call a strain of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis which is sort of the next step further, and is medically a much more difficult situation with regards to treatment and with regards to being able to let me go back out there into society. 
LIZ	So how long have you been in quarantine? 
CHRISTIAAN	I was diagnosed on sort of... I came into hospital on the 9th December and sort of since about the 9th December I've been here for 90 odd days. 
MAT	Wow! That must be pretty weird for you. Quickly, take us through an average day in quarantine. 
CHRISTIAAN	There's never an average day in quarantine. 
MAT	That sounds like the beginning of a film, mate. 
LIZ	The next track is going to be called that.
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah maybe the next track. No to be honest it's much more boring than that. My days include a whole lot of sort of staring at the walls, looking out my little window onto the car park that I have a view of, which is kind of creepy. 
LIZ	So you can...
CHRISTIAAN	So I'm sort of I'm taking medications at 11:00pm, 6:00pm, 11:00pm sort of, you know, 12:30pm several stages throughout the day. 
MAT	In between times you're obviously cracking down onto your laptop and 'dropping some joints' I believe is the phrase for making songs in the genre of hip hop – is that correct?
CHRISTIAAN	That's one of probably many different phrases used for dropping tracks in the hip hop world. I'm just like I'm really just trying to keep myself busy and keep my mind off everything that's been going on with regards to my health at the moment and the best way to, sort of the best way that I've found of doing that is to... yeah to be sort of focussing my energy on making those little videos that I've been having a bit of fun with. 
MAT	Yeah they're great videos, we've been watching them on YouTube and online and they're really good. 
LIZ	You've become a bit of a hit. You've got 8,000 fans on Facebook; over half a million people have seen your videos on YouTube; you've got 2,000 followers on Twitter I mean... 
MAT	You're famous mate. 
LIZ	... did you ever imagine this would happen? 
CHRISTIAAN	I could never have imagined that this would have happened. Like at first making these videos was just something that I did to pass the time and give my friends a bit of a laugh while I'm here, to sort of try and, you know, stay, you know, feel a little like I was involved in everyone else's lives still outside within my own little social group. And I could never imagine that I'd be up at 2:00 o'clock in the morning speaking to you guys from the BBC... 
MAT	Oh that's right it's 2:00 in the morning. 
CHRISTIAAN	... on the other side of the world 
MAT	And it sounds like, ironically, you're more connected to the outside world now by being virtually, you know, by being physically unconnected. And also... 
CHRISTIAAN	Absolutely. 
MAT	And also I hear that amongst your friendships there is, rather inevitably for a rapper such as yourself, quite a lot of female interest – is that true? 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah. Again like another little surprise there's been a fair few friendly ladies that have been following what's been going on here. 
MAT	Hm-mm. 
LIZ	You're being very polite obviously because it's the BBC. 
MAT	Tell us some more yes it's the BBC, no you can't swear but come on dish some dirt.
LIZ	A little bit more. 
CHRISTIAAN	I suppose I've had some pleasant requests from females around the world to keep me company while I'm here on my own in quarantine. 
MAT	And of course that would constitute a safe relationship if they were the other side of the bubble right? 
CHRISTIAAN	As safe as relationships get. 
MAT	Oh mate, tell me about it, tell me about it. 
LIZ	Have you been making use of the webcam and Skype then? 
MAT	Uh-ho. 
CHRISTIAAN	I've been, you know, I've been learning. 
MAT	I bet you have!
LIZ	Technologies come naturally to you. 
CHRISTIAAN	Like you said like this is sort of just I've never been this connected with the actual outside world in the rest of my life. I came in here without a Facebook and I've now got a Facebook, a Facebook fan page, a Twitter, a MySpace, a YouTube channel - it's ridiculous. 
MAT	What the hell are you going to do when you get better mate? It's going to be the end of your career.
CHRISTIAAN	I think one of the really nice things is that people are just being so sweet about trying to, you know, be supportive about me getting better that when it comes down to it, if these people genuinely, you know, from around the world actually find my videos funny for the content itself not just from the support factor that's kind of cute that I'm sick and I'm doing this, then they'll probably continue to watch any content that I've put on there throughout... I mean I'm going to be technically I'm going to be taking medication and treatment for 18 months to get rid of this (inaudible) and it's going to be a bit of a journey just getting settled back in with my real life again when I get out of here. So I think I'm still going to have some interesting things to make little songs about, and I still am really keen for guys to, you know, follow and have a look at what happens. It's been sort of something that feels like it's a little hobby that I can now do, you know, sort of... 
MAT	Yeah. 
CHRISTIAAN	... whenever I've got an idea or whenever I feel like putting something on line. 
MAT	You're very good at it, and you're not a bad looking bloke, you know, and that's coming from a wholly heterosexual point of view. No really. 
CHRISTIAAN	Thank you, Mattie. 
MAT	Hmm thank you okay. Stop flirting with me. 
LIZ	You are attractive and that's coming from a gay perspective as well. I'm just saying. 
MAT	Her gay perspective, not mine because I'm not gay but she is. 
LIZ	We just like to... 
CHRISTIAAN	 That's cool 
MAT	I like gays. 
LIZ	But even the ladies like you. 
MAT	Look the point being that I've had an idea. Do you know... I love the fact that you're a little bit Falco, a little bit '80s with your style. 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah. 
MAT	You're like the original hip hop yeah, none of this second wave... 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah. 
MAT	I like that. Now you know how like sometimes rappers when they're getting towards the, you know, the middle of their career they start bringing in famous bits of pop songs do you remember the Divinyls 'I Touch Myself'? 
CHRISTIAAN	Totally. 
MAT	Right well I'm thinking because no one's allowed to touch you because you're in quarantine, therefore you have to touch yourself and then that maybe... 
CHRISTIAAN	That's correct.
MAT	... could be the chorus for a new song. Just giving you some ideas there. 
LIZ	We know that... I was following you on Facebook yesterday and I know you were looking out for tracks and new music to listen to so maybe the Divinyls might just inspire you and the ladies watching you. 
MAT	He's not impressed. He's like too English... 
LIZ	This isn't what I was expecting. 
CHRISTIAAN	I'm just feeling this is getting creepy for the BBC. 
MAT	We're about as creepy as the BBC can get, I'll tell you that, CHRISTIAAN. 
LIZ	It's creepy for anyone. I just have to ask, before we say goodbye, do you see anyone? You know when they bring the food to you does anyone like touch you or... I don't mean in a bad way, but in a good way do they bring the food in or, you know, do you have any human contact at all? 
MAT	Or is it a robot? 
CHRISTIAAN	The nurses when they come in here sort of, you know, have a bit of a chat when they're in here. But they're briefed medically to spend as little amount of time in here as possible. 
LIZ	And do they wear space suits? 
MAT	God it must be really lonely. 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah they have their masks and they wear gloves. 
LIZ	Okay. 
MAT	On all seriousness, hold on CHRISTIAAN, this must be a really weird remove of any kind of human connection for you because you've literally had it taken away from you. 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah it is, it is. And it's definitely something like that I'm really looking forward to when this is all over and done with. 
MAT	I bet. 
CHRISTIAAN	Because it's one of those things like even when family come in or when sort of close friends, you know, I'm still allowed visitation and stuff at times. And when that happens they've got to all be masked up like I haven't really stared my family in the face without a mask on or, you know, they haven't been able to sit (inaudible) without wearing a mask and gloves since sort of mid December. 
MAT	Wow!
LIZ	So well. So how do we find out more? Where can we... what's your URL, how can we get in touch with you, how can our listeners? 
CHRISTIAAN	Well cool the sort of whole little character I've built myself (inaudible) is called the Fully Sick Rapper. And so you can go to www.fullysickrapper.com and that will take people straight to my YouTube channel which has all the videos and stuff. And the other thing you can do is if you're on Facebook just search for the Fully Sick Rapper and I've got a fan page there that you can join up and I'll update what I'm up to every day and so that you can help me sort of along my journey by suggesting sort of, you know, your favourite music and anything you want to say just I read all of my comments and I try to get back to everyone. 
MAT	Fantastic. 
CHRISTIAAN	But you can also follow on Twitter the same thing just Fully Sick Rapper. 
LIZ	We're going to hear the whole of one of your songs later on in the show, so stay with us until then. 
CHRISTIAAN	Cool. Thank you. 
	[Jingle: You can email the show at ouch@bbc.co.uk]
MAT	What's the correct term for a 50th anniversaire? 
LIZ	I do not know but I know 50th like wedding anniversary it's golden. 
MAT	It's a golden one. 
LIZ	It's a gold--... and this is our golden so okay I'm going to be cheesy. 
MAT	Beautiful cheese. 
LIZ	We've got some golden memories and golden moments. 
MAT	[Singing] Some golden memories. 
LIZ	Some clips listeners, yes, a montage of clips that you may or may not remember from the best of our 50 shows. Have a listen. 

[Playing clips

From our Christmas Show, live from the BBC radio theatre in London. 
If you've never seen a severely handicapped person trying to speak before, it can be a bit alarming. But Jerry wasn't just making wild grunts he was actually talking. 
We should have warned the audience before they came in. 
LIZ:  Who was Sarah Greene talking about? 
Joey, Joey what's her name? 
I've no idea.
Was it Deacon?
It was! Joey Deacon. 
LIZ:  Yeah. Joey Deacon originally came to the public's attention in about '74 and then in '79 Blue Peter thought that children would be able to relate with 60 year old spastics.]

[Playing music]
KIRUNA:  MC Wheels will be with us in the studio in about 30 minutes from now and cooking up with his fellow wheelchair using rapper, ((Tap Whortez?)) in New York. You know maybe we'll get them to freestyle or something interesting. 

MAT:  Gill, drop the damn beat. [Playing music] I don't know who's going to start but whoever wants take it. 

[Playing music]

MAT:  We're sending you down to Hamleys, one of the world's most famous toy stores to find some presents with a disability theme. 
ROB:  It's a cripperly piggerly and it's having an epileptic fit right in front of you. I don't know if you can hear that it vibrates and it's not a nice vibration. 
MAT:  At quite a rate. Not like an epileptic you can't just hold it down until it stops. 
ROB:  Oh you can. 
MAT:  Okay, come on. Do the end bit Liz. I want to get down the pub girl. 

MAT	Beautiful times.
LIZ	I'd forgotten so many. 
MAT	I know. What was your absolute favourite moment, Liz? 
LIZ	Absolute favourite, absolute favourite? There has been some... you know one of my favourites was Adam Hills. We've had great people that we've interviewed. 
MAT	He was a great interviewee wasn't he? 
LIZ	And he's the Australian comedian, Adam Hills, with one leg. 
MAT	With a wooden leg. Wooden leg. 
LIZ	And we were teaching him about the different words for disabled people. And we were teaching about ((bornies – sic)). 
MAT	That's it. 
LIZ	That's, you know, the bornies who are born disabled and he was quite taken, he was like, "Right I'm putting that in a show" and it is in a show now, it is.
MAT	Oh is it because he said, "Oh am I a bornie againie?"
LIZ	Yeah. So I loved, I mean loads of our... I loved we just did her recently, Sue Townsend, she was incredible. 
MAT	Yeah, who knew eh? 
LIZ	Wow the author of Adrian Mole books. 
MAT	Yeah, yeah. 
LIZ 	So I loved... how about you when we interviewed...
MAT	Well you know sometimes I can be a little edgy and I remember we had a slightly edgy, almost confrontational interview with the dear departed Jeremy Beadle, where at one point he started ranting, "This is pagan" and I just sat there thinking, "Yeah we've got... that's the high point in my career, Jeremy Beadle is telling me I'm pagan." 
LIZ	But, listeners, if you do listen back to that one because you're interested it will be quite plain because as I recall Damon, our producer, had to edit out most of the content of that. Yes Mat?
MAT	Yes. And back in those days of course our studio ops was an unpaid volunteer, Steve Palmer, hi Steve if you're listening. 
LIZ	You know because I think people approach us via Facebook or if they know us and think, you know, or anything to do with the BBC must be glam, let's just say when we began it really was, it was a tiny studio, most people were doing it for free. 
MAT	Yeah. We were next to a cafe right that banned Damon's dog illegally, so I boycotted it, do you remember listeners, I boycotted it walked round the corner to find the entire production team in the cafe not supporting my boycott. 
LIZ	Well we used to have our production meetings there and they did do a lovely latte. I'm just saying. 
MAT	That wasn't the point. I met you on a disability protest, Liz, what's happened? 
LIZ	But that's interesting for me is how we also got here because I don't know. How were you as--... were you approached in an underhand way? 
MAT	I think that Damon and me were... we just happened to bump into each other I think in a BBC cafe. And he was like, "I've got this idea for a sort of disability crip run thing" I went, "Yeah it sounds interesting" never really thinking... because there was nothing that went before it so I had no term of reference for it, you know. And now hey we're the stalwart of the cutting edge disability scene worldwide. 
LIZ	Then it was a... I remember being asked to do it I didn't know what a podcast was. I thought, "Sounds like fun, never done anything like it" never, you know, never imagined. And now... so now we record from Broadcasting House so it's kind of the iconic BBC building. 
MAT	We're in a medium sized studio but sometimes we get to be in the posh studio with the grand piano. 
LIZ	It's very... you always like to have a little tinkle of the ivories with your no thumbed hands. 
MAT	That's it I do (inaudible) flippers plonking away.
LIZ	We did do that lot when we were listening back at clips to put the montage together and stuff and we did, we still do it now, but at the beginning there was a lot of talk of thalidomide, Mat, wasn't there? 
MAT	There was. A lot of gargling from me. 
LIZ	Lot of gargling. 
MAT	I just love starting with a gargle. 
LIZ	Yeah. 
MAT	And a lot of talk of thalidomide and its annoying little attributes. 
LIZ	Then it was thalidomide now that's kind of being eclipsed by the talk of assisted suicide all the time hasn't it? 
MAT	It has Liz, and thankfully you've taken a mantel of flogging a dead horse. Oop wrong phrase there. Sorry, a dead crippled horse anyway. 
LIZ	I think some of the best memories, strongest memories for me have actually been the... things like the assisted suicide discussions, but also I don't know if you remember the Ashley X discussion? 
MAT	Yeah. The serious moments are for me have been some of the best bits in this I think. 
LIZ	And I think because, you know, you expect it to be funny and quite, you know, what's happened topical and all of that, people don't expect it and we don't, and then we get into something quite serious... 
MAT	Let's remind the listeners, who was Ashley X? 
LIZ	Well Ashley X was a young disabled woman who lived in America. And her parents wanted her to have treatment, a hormone treatment, that would keep her little so that she could... 
MAT	Making her the pillow angel. 
LIZ	The pillow angel. 
MAT	That's right. 
LIZ	She was going to have her womb removed, she was going to have her breast buds removed so that there was nothing... she was nothing adult about her so that she wouldn't be abused and so that she could be kept at home. And of course this provoked a, you know, a lot of different views in the media. But often the views of disabled people were not of course talked about. 
MAT	Absolutely. And I honestly am very proud, not that I think we're responsible for it, but we helped facilitate an alternative opinion of disabled people about these mainstream stores that get aired hugely by the mainstream media but never from a disability perspective. And it's nice that we can provide an alternative isn't it? 
LIZ	And a platform for people writing in. So please do keep doing that, remember ouch@bbc.co.uk you know where we are. 
MAT	But not just the passage of time has changed, we've actually changed as people, Liz, haven't we in many ways? 
LIZ	Well... 
MAT	Like when we started I was happily married to Pattou. 
LIZ	Wow. 
MAT	I remember, you know, shouting out one Valentine and it was heartfelt, and of course that marriage broke up and we're now with different partners and I'm with my glorious and beautiful girlfriend, Julie. And it's really changed a little bit for you, Liz, as well hasn't it because... 
LIZ	I was waiting for this, this always happens. "So what's changed for you Liz in the last four years?" Well four years ago I was going out with a man and then three years ago I started to go out with a woman. Yes. 
MAT	I'm interested in this because you're not, I mean, it's very rare isn't it when somebody's straight and then they 'turn' gay. That's a sort of intellectual conceit that I don't think... 
LIZ	I'm sorry listeners, he has to go through this. 
MAT	You basically fall in love with someone don't you? 
LIZ	Well that's it. 
MAT	Isn't that what it's really about? 
LIZ	That's it. She was absolutely she was... 
MAT	You just counter culture all the way. 
LIZ	And actually it's thanks to Ouch because Jo was an access worker, working with the Ouch team, not with me. 
MAT	I've tried it on with all of them, none of them want to know. 
LIZ	She wasn't interested. 
MAT	I know. 
LIZ	She wasn't interested she had eyes only for me. And that's it, and we've been together three years and yes I should reveal we are about to get married. 
MAT	WHAT??!!
LIZ	I know. 
MAT	WHAT??!!!
LIZ	I know. 
MAT	Are you going to have one of those Elton John things? 
LIZ	What? What does that mean? 
MAT	A million selling record. No.
LIZ	I wish. I wish. A sequined jacket? No, no, no. Yes Halloween. I'm having a Halloween wedding. 
MAT	 A civil partnership wedding... 
LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	... on Halloween? 
LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	That's a little bit un-CHRISTIAAN if you don't mind me saying so. 
LIZ	Thank you. Thank you the theme is 'Day of the Dead'. 
MAT	Oh right, wow!
LIZ	Yes because not only do I always talk about assisted suicide and death's always on my mind. No 'Day of the Dead' is a Mexican celebration where they believe that the souls of the departed come back and celebrate with the living. So we thought and it's not meant... it's meant to be a big celebration there as crips and whoever we are we lose a lot of people, people die, so we'd like to celebrate our marriage with people who we've lost and people living. So that's why we decided to have a Mexican Day of the Dead wedding. 
MAT	That's very nice. 
LIZ	So that's what we're doing 
MAT	And of course cheesily trying to do a link here. Mexico's one of the few places we haven't been in the last four years isn't it? 
LIZ	We have been to... we've recorded in New York. 
MAT	(inaudible)
LIZ	Edinburgh. 
MAT	Aye!
LIZ	I was in Sydney. 
MAT	[making noises of a billabong] 
LIZ	Dear God. So Mexico maybe... 
MAT	[singing Mexican music]
LIZ	And I do want to say we've also had when me and Mat aren't here we've had some fantastic stand-in and other presenters haven't we? 
MAT	Who have we had? We've had Lawrence. 
LIZ	Lawrence Clark. And "Hello I sound like Kermit" Lawrence Carter Long. 
MAT	(inaudible) Kiruna Stamell.
LIZ	"Oh look, she's so cute." 
MAT	And we've had... you do Julie, you do Julie.
LIZ	Julie Ferandez and great stand-in, we've had Simon Minty as our stand-in newsperson. 
MAT	And I remember when Rob first turned up and Damon was like, "Yeah we're going to actually make this a bit more inclusive and we're going to have this guy who's not from disability culture, in fact he worked for a lad's mag." And I think it was of them booby type ones... 
LIZ	Yeah. 
MAT	... the front cover ones. And I was all like my back was up, I remember. And now he's become totally one... part of the family. It's been great watching... charting his understanding of disability change isn't it? 
LIZ	And yet not lose who he was kind of thing. 
MAT	Absolutely. 
LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 
MAT	And still have a total misunderstanding of it all 
LIZ	He's not suddenly working for Disability Now page three... 
MAT	No he's certainly not. 
LIZ	... because that would be weird. But no... 
MAT	Let's have a look at her. What would be... 
LIZ	[singing] Biffy of the month! 
MAT	Yeah biffy babe. We should have 'Freak of the Week'. 
LIZ	I think that would be great. It's a new fea--... yeah, you know come on listeners so we've been going for 50 shows, four years, so what have we had in the last four years amazing things. What about the next four if we do... 
MAT	Yeah let's have some suggestions. 
LIZ	... you know we're here in four years. 
MAT	What games can we play? 
LIZ	What games, what fun? 
MAT	What features? 
LIZ	What interviews would you like to hear? What features that we've not done so far? But yeah we're quite fancying [singing] Freak of the Week! Aaghh!
MAT	Aaghh!
LIZ	That's one of them. 
MAT	It's nice, it's catchy. 
LIZ	You, Mat, what do you want to see? 
MAT	What do I want to see? I want to see 'Guess the object with audio description'. That was a stone dead ((0:45:27.2?)) wasn't it bloody hell.
LIZ	Okay. So if anyone things that's a good do write in. 
MAT	What else, what else? I love reminiscing. 
LIZ	What else? 
MAT	Let's have another cup of coffee and reminisce some more. 
LIZ	Do you know one of my most incredibly famous and preferred moments – do you like that? 
MAT	Incredibly famous and preferred moment was? 
LIZ	I don't know what that means. But was when I co-presented the show with Gary O'Donoghue right? 
MAT	Of course. Big shout out to Gary. 
LIZ	Gary wow! And he just was... 
MAT	He's so intelligent. 
LIZ	We were just... oh amazing he's a political correspondent for the BBC like I felt all quite intimidated you know... 
MAT	Yeah. 
LIZ	I felt quite serious because I think it was. 
MAT	Well he's got a proper job. 
LIZ	 It was, he has I mean he's an amazing journalist. And he just starts to talk about how a friend of his had just died, another blind person... 
MAT	Oh God. 
LIZ	... who had fallen off the platform. 
MAT	Yes that's right. 
LIZ	A railway platform. And he just said it so matter of fact... 
MAT	And we were so shocked weren't we? 
LIZ	Yes. And he was like "This happens, this is normal."
MAT	This is blind reality. 
LIZ	This is blind reality. And it was, you could just feel the ten--... you know everyone in... 
MAT	That's right and he went, "Oh no most blind people who live around London will know somebody or have themselves fallen off the platform at one point in their life or another." What? Wow!
LIZ	And that's what I like... okay so that's what I love about Ouch I think it's that we can laugh at stuff that we laugh about and that nobody else laughs about in the media. But also you hear stuff, you hear untold stories and things that you ne--... where else are you going to hear that revealed. 
[Jingle: You're listening to the Ouch Talk Show]
[Jingle: Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable]
MAT	Ah the dulcet tones of Mr Clarke there. We have done about 45 of these. It's the monthly disability game that people still line up to play and Liz is going to tell you how it works. 
LIZ	Well we get people on the phone, we try to guess what's wrong with them without being too insulting, they usually win and we end up resenting them. Yes I think that's how it goes. 
MAT	Yeah I reckon. On the line this month we have Brian. Hello Brian. 
BRIAN	Good after evening. Whatever time it is in London. 
LIZ	Brian, we tried to get you on the phone a few minutes ago and you were at the chemist. 
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	So you really are disabled aren't you? 
BRIAN	Well it's... don't be telling anybody... 
MAT	Yeah you almost got him there. 
LIZ	What is wrong with you then, Sir? No, no, no. 
BRIAN	I'm not supposed to tell you. 
MAT	No good. But at least you know. Now listen obviously when we're chatting with you now, be careful not to give anything away. But what I want to know the burning question is who do you fancy more – Sophie Dahl or Tanni Grey-Thompson? If you had to. 
LIZ	One's a good cook. 
BRIAN	Sophie Dahl. 
MAT	One's fast. 
BRIAN	And mine is only about three years younger. 
MAT	Yes. 
LIZ	Only three. 
BRIAN	Oh wait a minute I think I should have put a nought in front of that... after it should I say. 
LIZ	But you know Tanni has got big hands. I'm just saying. 
MAT	Oh moving on, moving on. 
BRIAN	((0:48:25.6?)) what? 
MAT	Yes. Sorry let's perhaps move on to who are you going to vote for in the election? 
BRIAN	The only guy ever I voted for is dead now unfortunately. 
MAT	That always helps I find. 
LIZ	I hope the two aren't related? 
BRIAN	I'll probably still vote for him. You know that guy that wore the big top hat and was as mad as a March hare? 
MAT	Oh the Monster Raving Loony Party. 
BRIAN	Yeah, yeah nice guy that. I could relate to him very well. (inaudible)
MAT	Shall we get on with the game then? 
LIZ	Oh go for it. 
BRIAN	Oh all right then. 
MAT	All right then. So Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must only answer ‘yes’ or ‘no’ it is both classit – aaghh it is both ha, ha.
LIZ	It's what, it's what Mat? 
MAT	(inaudible) 
LIZ	After 45 times it's both what? 
MAT	45 times later I'm here to tell you that it is both classic and therapeutic. 
LIZ	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. Brian, are you disabled?
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Really? 
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Just checking. Okay. Ninety seconds on the clock your time starts NOW. 
MAT	Can you walk? 
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Do you use a wheelchair even though you can walk? 
BRIAN	No. 
MAT	Can you see? 
BRIAN	[drawn out] Yeesss.
LIZ	It's only 90 seconds. 
MAT	Hold on he was uncertain. Have you got a slight visual impairment? 
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Do you use a white cane? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you have a guide dog? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you have an assistance dog? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you have an assistance monkey? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Do you get disability benefits? 
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Are you off work because you're disabled?
BRIAN	Yes. 
LIZ	Can you use your hands?
BRIAN	Pardon?
LIZ	Can you use your hands? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Oh no. Have you got hands? 
MAT	Yeah have you got... 
BRIAN	Yes, yes, yes sorry (inaudible) sorry I misinterpreted your question. 
MAT	Okay so you've got hands that you can't use? 
BRIAN	Er, not true, no I can use them. 
LIZ	God. 
MAT 	It's getting confusing. 
LIZ	Your hearing's all right? 
MAT	Have you got any psychiatric situations? 
LIZ	He didn't answer, he didn't answer the hearing one. 
MAT	Oh sorry. Hearing? Hearing? 
LIZ	Don't shout. 
MAT	Well he might not be able to hear. 
BRIAN	Okay hearing. I can't say yes or no. 
MAT	Are you a mental health survivor of the system? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	If we looked at you now would we know that you were disabled? 
BRIAN	No. 
MAT	Did your mother try to smother you at birth? 
BRIAN	Yes. 
MAT	I like this guy. 
LIZ	Have you got psoriasis? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Epilepsy?
BRIAN	No. 
MAT	Muscular Dystrophy? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	MS?
BRIAN	No. 
MAT	Cerebral Palsy?
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Hydrocephalus?
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Parkinson's?
MAT	Are you a dwarf? 
BRIAN	No. 
LIZ	Oh man! I thought we were really good today. 
MAT	We've run out of time. 
LIZ	We've run out of time.
MAT	We've run out of time.
LIZ	Our questioning was... ah. 
MAT	Okay. So Brian come on put us out of our misery. 
BRIAN	I've an in-growing toenail. 
MAT	No. 
LIZ	No!
BRIAN	I'm joking. 
LIZ	I feel cheated. 
BRIAN	No I've actually got a brain aneurysm. 
MAT	Wow! They can be really serious. 
BRIAN	I've got to go in and get it removed. On the sight question it does... it did cause me double vision. It's always caused me double vision a little bit. 
LIZ	So you've had it, you've had that treated but you're still experiencing the effects of it all? 
BRIAN	No I'm going in, funnily, believe it or not, I just got, in this morning's post, I just got an invitation to come in to tell me... I went for the, you know this thing they put the dye into your head, into your blood and then they take... angiogram that's the word I'm looking for.  
MAT	Yes I've heard of that. 
LIZ	Oh I've heard of them. 
BRIAN	So I've got to go in now they've found the results of that, so I've got to go in now to find out whether they are going to sort of open my head up and dig this thing out or whether they fill it full of platinum wire or something like that. 
LIZ	So when people find out you've got a brain aneurysm what questions do they ask? 
BRIAN	Well a lot of people say, "What is it?" which is almost even the doctor told me is the first question I asked. And apparently to refer it back to... like the old inner tube of a bicycle, if you picture the inside tube of a bicycle. 
MAT	Picturing it right now.
LIZ	Yeah. 
BRIAN	And that is an artery in your body. 
MAT	Okay. 
BRIAN	And if you get a weakness in that on the side wall of that, if you could picture it sort of ballooning out a little bit, like a little bubble on the side... 
MAT	Like they do yeah. 
BRIAN	Well that's exactly what an aneurysm is. A lot of people have them in their heart and one thing or another. I happen to be too smart so I got mine in my brain. 
LIZ	It's been lovely talking to you. We only have an hour's show. But look good luck, very good luck. 
BRIAN	Thanks a lot it's really been a pleasure. 
MAT	And enjoy your next trip to the chemist. 
BRIAN	Thanks. 
LIZ	You've been a blast. Thank you. 
MAT	Yeah thanks so much, Brian. Bye bye. 
BRIAN	Take care. Bye bye. 
LIZ	So if you do, listeners, want to be the next contestant on Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable then email us now. It's ouch@bbc.co.uk. Why should they do it Mat? 
MAT	Because they're getting a load of whole... the whole load of new merchandise in soon including – are you ready for this? 
LIZ	I'm ready. 
MAT	Some commuter mugs.
LIZ	I heard as well not just commuter mugs, you know, when you get your freedom pass with your little card thing... 
MAT	Oh yeah the holder. 
LIZ	... for free transport. 
MAT	The holder. 
LIZ	The holder – Ouch holders. 
MAT	An Ouch holder? 
LIZ	Just saying. 
MAT	Because I really want one. I've got a (inaudible)) 'Some People are Gay – Get Over It' one. 
LIZ	Nice. 
MAT	In support of my gay brothers and sisters which is nice. But I really want a crippy one. 
[Jingle: BBC.co.uk/ouch]
LIZ	So that's it, it's the end of the 50th Talk Show. 
MAT	[Explosion noise]
LIZ	That was a big party popper. Where do we go from here? Another 50? 
MAT	Yes please. 
LIZ	Yeah, yeah? Well hopefully. Thanks this month to the team Damon Rose, Zoe Breen and Emma Tracey. The studio manager was Drew Lecky and we'll be back next month. Now do pop in and see us at our stand at Naidex exhibition in Birmingham between the 20th and 22nd of April. 
MAT	And we're joined again once more by CHRISTIAAN, our Fully Sick Rapper, deep in quarantine in a hospital bed somewhere in Sydney. Hi, mate you still there? 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah still here, still alive.
MAT	Hoorah!
LIZ	Hoorar!
MAT	All right. We're going to play out with your track. Christiaan, you wrote and performed this in your quarantine room. Tell us quickly about the making of it? 
CHRISTIAAN	Yeah it's called Germophobe and it's based around the paranoia that I've been getting of all the bacteria that are living here in my room. The more and more the doctors come in here and the more and more I hear from the nurses about all the crazy bacterias that are found in hospitals the more and more I think they're coming for me. So this track's sort of my little tribute to those bugs and the killing of them. 
LIZ	Well here's the song 'I'm a Germophone'. Until next month everyone bye. 
MAT	Bye bye. 
LIZ	Bye bye. 
	[Playing music]