Ouch Podcast #51 – May 2010
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr

The Ouch Podcast is a download from the BBC. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.

[Jingle O U C H spells Ouch]

MAT	((coughing)) Oh God excuse ((cough)) me.

LIZ	Are you all right there? 

MAT	Hi, oh sorry it's the ash. 

LIZ	Really? 
 
MAT	I just got back from America and we were... Anyway, hey Liz Carr. 

LIZ	Hey Mat Fraser.

MAT	And hi listeners, welcome to the Ouch Talk Show. 

LIZ	Ah hello. I think we're doing remarkably well. Very early morning for us, it won't make any difference to you listeners, you don't know when you're listening, anytime of the day, but it's very early for us - but we're spritely aren't we? 

MAT	Well semi spritely. What time did you get up this morning? 

LIZ	Actually for me this is early: 6:45am. 

MAT	Hm-mm 6:15am. On the show today Rob Crossan, the evil red eyed albino freelancer, reviews some of the freakier disability stories from the news in the last month. And we're also be chatting to him about what he did when he was stuck in Europe with the no fly volcanic ash cloud above his head. 

LIZ	We're going to be trying once again to guess what's wrong with the contestant on the phone, oh yes in our radio parlour game Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. 

MAT	And wrap your ears around this. 

[Playing music]

Wow that's a beautiful ((inaudible)) with a PH sound. That's SaschaTC she's disabled yet makes such beautiful music despite having to use crutches.  

LIZ	Oh. 

MAT	You'll hear that in full at the end of the show. 

LIZ	All that plus plenty, plenty of life affirming and therapeutic chat from the show that loves a damn good cry. When, when will we all be equal? ((singing)) When, hm-mm will I be equal?
 
MAT	Never. Never Liz. 

LIZ	Not with singing like that. 

MAT	No, no. 

LIZ	Where are we? 

MAT	I'll tell you we're on the web at bbc.co.uk/ouch with videos, interviews, cartoons and a message board where you can rip each other to ideological smithereens though it is against the house rules. 

LIZ	Boo, boo, boo. 

MAT	Order in the house. 

LIZ	Election no, no, no. Brighter things. 

MAT	Brighter things than an election – well anything basically. 

LIZ	I'm going to be 38. 

MAT	Liz!

LIZ	It's my birthday this week. 

MAT	Happy birthday to you Liz, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, happy birthday, happy birthday to you. 
	
LIZ	Oh thank you. Thank you. ((inaudible)) not after that I note the lack the card and present as per usual.
 
MAT	Well wait until Tuesday. 

LIZ	Really? 

MAT	If you haven't got an all lesbian birthday perhaps I'll be allowed to attend it. 

LIZ	Oh there we go. I'm actually having afternoon tea. 

MAT	That's what I said an all lesbian birthday. 
LIZ	I was going... I know I'm getting older because about a month ago booked this lovely, lovely two days away, was going to go to a theme park, stay over at a hotel, you know I love my theme parks... 

MAT	Yeah sounds luxurious. 

LIZ	Very excited about it. 

MAT	Sounds a birthday classic. 

LIZ	Then last week thought, "You know what think I think I'd rather go to the garden centre". So we've cancelled and I'm going to the garden centre. 

MAT	Oh okay. Sorry... 

LIZ	And I'm actually excited about that. What? 

MAT	House meeting. 

LIZ	What? 

MAT	Liz I know that you're going to be 38... 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	And I know you're... how long into your long term relationship are you now? 

LIZ	It's coming up to three years. 

MAT	So you're... 

LIZ	Oh and thank you everyone for all the good wishes because I said I'm getting married and I am. It's not on the 31st of October it's now the 1st of November if you'd like to send me anything, you don't have to that's fine. I'm just saying. 

MAT	Finished?

LIZ	Yeah.

MAT	Okay. 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	I have to issue you with a middle class complacency warning. You're 38 and you've decided, yeah decided to go to a garden centre. Let me tell you about something, Liz, because I'm ten years on you.

LIZ	Yes. 
MAT	Both in relationship terms and age. 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	When me and Patou were deeply ensconced into our middle class suburban dream I came to the Teddington Garden Centre as we were deliberating... 

LIZ	There are other garden centres. 

MAT	Yeah this was just one of many in Teddington, and I came to as we were deciding on what border plants to buy. And I came to and looked at myself – that out of body experience – that it should have come to this, you Mat Fraser the rock & roller of the thalidomide community are now in a garden centre by choice having parked your estate Volvo in the disability parking spot in the car park – how sad is that? 

LIZ	So are you basically saying to me... 

MAT	I'm issuing you with a warning now. 

LIZ	... that in ten years time I am going to be going out with Miss Erotic World. 

MAT	No Mr Erotic World. 

LIZ	Oh okay. 

MAT	That's how weird it's going to get. 

LIZ	So I'll be having my midlife crisis then. 

MAT	Huh-ho yes perhaps you will, Liz. 

LIZ	Thank you. 

MAT	So... 

LIZ	Have you got a motorbike? 

MAT	No I've got a blond stripper girlfriend - it's better. 

LIZ	We're really reaching out and saying we're just like you listeners. Emails – thank you. 

MAT	Great.

LIZ	You have been sending them on. James Toon, 65 in brackets, I'm thinking that's your age I don't know. Possibly it is your age... 

MAT	Freedom pass. 

LIZ	... reading your email. 

MAT	Double freedom pass for you. 

LIZ	"How can we teach our grandchildren good manners when Prue Leith and her companions in the Great British Menu scoff their food in large forkfuls and eat with their elbows on the table?" 

MAT	Sorry what's this got to do with disability? 

LIZ	We're not quite sure why he's emailed a disability website. We're just wondering, you know, is this sort of... 

MAT	Who's Prue Leith? 

LIZ	She's a chef, a celebrity chef, well not really she's a bit of an old fashioned one so, you know... But I'm thinking if he's worried about how people on the Great British Menu have been eating he's obviously not been in the room when there's been loads of disabled people, I mean, we know some messy... they slobber, they miss their mouths, they can't reach their mouths. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Yeah and then they... or they... 

LIZ	That's most of us. 

MAT	... eat with their feet. 

LIZ	Oh yeah. 

MAT	I mean, you know, when you're used to disability and disabled people your idea of table etiquette rapidly has to change doesn't it? 

LIZ	I'd say, James, be grateful, be grateful there's not more cripples eating on TV then you'd have something to complain about. Then write in. Anyway, thanks for your email. 

MAT	But thanks for your slightly obsessive emails. All right, thank you Scott Cann at 38, I'm glad you enjoy the show. And from Bill McKenny here "Dear BBC, I was googling and came across your article 'The Wheelchair Dancing'. In May 1997 I became the UK's first instructor to choreograph and teach the disabled how to line dance in a wheelchair. I came up with the idea of transferring the feet movements to the hands and have a team called The Wheelabilly Rockers. We tour the UK even got to France Line Dance Championships and Germany we were on Michael Barrymore's My Kind of People in Sheffield, though sadly this was never shown on TV. Hm.

LIZ	Actually I was... because the article he's referring to is one that I wrote because I was part of a wheelchair using, electric wheelchair using line dancing group. And that was fantastic. You're scoffing Matthew I can hear in your voice you're going, "Oh yeah that sounds like rot" and actually... 

MAT	No not the concept of disabled wheelchair dancing but the... 

LIZ	Is it Michael Barrymore? 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	Yeah I know. I mean I'm quite amused at the idea of... 

MAT	Not being homophobic?!

LIZ	No!

MAT	His gayness was great. 

LIZ	No because I wasn't, you know, and I'm one of them.

MAT	I know. 

LIZ	So it's fine, it's okay. 

MAT	That proves it listeners. 

LIZ	We've got that covered. 

MAT	So don't even try, all right? 

LIZ	Some of our best friends... But no it's the idea of you doing your hand movements I think that's quite funny. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	You know some of our friends that would be like only to the human eye wouldn't it, you wouldn't notice that. But when we did it it was kind of cool because it was electric wheelchair users and so we were all moving in kind of sync, you know... 

MAT	We had a battery short out and somebody did a sudden spurt. 

LIZ	Funnily enough no. 

MAT	Good. But that would have been fun to see. 

LIZ	The wheelchair salsa. But no it was good we were the rolling stones rollers. 

MAT	Now let's... and pop the voltage. Can you imagine that like mix that with Robot Wars. 

LIZ	I like the bit it says, "Yours faithfully, Bill McKenny aka Wild Bill"

MAT	Whoo look out here comes Wild Bill with his hand movements. 

LIZ	((fanfare))

MAT	Thanks Bill, thanks very much. 

LIZ	Rob Bond, "Hi there Mat and Liz, I'm 39 years old..." what is it with everyone giving their ages this month, what's the obsession? We don't care it's fine. 

MAT	To be honest we both have. 

LIZ	That's true. Do send in your age it makes us feel better. "I've recently been thinking with the forthcoming election looming the three main parties are trying to beat each other with promises of more and more cuts" this is true they are. And he says, "What no one has addressed is the impact this may have on disabled people." Rob, I think we have. I think to be honest most of us are watching the election wondering what's going to happen, how it's going to change... that's what you do don't you? 

MAT	Why only today in the BBC cafe I asked Amy, our new assistant: what's the Lib Dem policy on disability? And do you know she didn't know. 

LIZ	What's the Tory policy? 

MAT	I don't know. 

LIZ	What's the Labour policy? 

MAT	It's showing posters of Little Britain. 

LIZ	So Mat are you going to vote?
 
MAT	Of course I'm going to vote. I'm going to exercise my inalienable right to influence the democratic myth, of course I am. 

LIZ	Nice for you, you can get into the polling stations can't you? 
MAT	Oh God. Are you trying to tell me that in 2010 it's an inaccessible experience, voting. 

LIZ	I've got a postal vote because I can't be bothered. 

MAT	Well that's different. 

LIZ	That's just because I'm lazy actually that's got nothing to do with access. 

MAT	Well we don't know the outcome because when we're recording this podcast. You listeners, in the majority by now listening, will know who's in power. I hope you're happy with how you voted. 

LIZ	Oh look, look who's across the table? 

MAT	It's Rob Crossan looking a little ashen if I might say so. 

LIZ	Oh! Oh! 

ROB	I must say I'm glad that we're finally talking about politics because up until I thought this was maybe the world's most sexually frustrated podcast. Like every single item - no matter what the degrees of separation are - Mat, especially, manages to bring it back to lesbianism or just any kind of sexual ((inaudible))

LIZ	Rob... 

MAT	Well to be honest I did vote Tory because I fancy Sam Cam and those nice leggy photos. 

ROB	You don't fancy Sam Cam do you? Do you think she's hotter than Cherie? 

LIZ	Is that because she's pregnant? 

MAT	Yeah. 

ROB	What about Sarah, Sarah Brown? 

MAT	I love Sarah Brown. 

ROB	Yeah. 

MAT	I think she's a really nice woman. I've met her, we've got on really well. 

ROB	Well I imagine Nick Clegg would have quite a hot wife – does he? 

MAT	I wouldn't know. Miriam is Spanish apparently. 
ROB	I can't wait to vote. I missed the last two I feel really... I haven't voted since 1997. But it all turned out fine last time. So I'm hoping it will be fine in 2010. 

MAT	Blimey this is all so confusing. 

ROB	Yeah. 

LIZ	Rob, actually for one of the first times ever we do have an email about you, so I'm glad you're in here now. It's an email from John Gifford. Now do you remember you and I co-hosted a show, it was a good experience I think Rob yeah? 

ROB	I enjoyed it. 

LIZ	Yeah it was all right wasn't it? 

ROB	And I'm, you know, I'm still on medication but that's fine. 

LIZ	Well there's been a bit of a complaint. "Sorry to complain about a programme that was on over two months ago, but I was reading the transcript and was surprised to read that your interviewer..." that's you, "thought Milton Keynes was a canal free area. 

MAT	You thought what! 

ROB	Right. 

LIZ	Now he goes on Mat doesn't he? 

ROB	Go on please. 

LIZ	"Probably one of the most famous canals in the UK... 

MAT	Yes. 

LIZ	... the Grand Union Canal, Rob... 

MAT	Hello! 

LIZ	... runs right through the middle of Milton Keynes. Perhaps your interviewers need to be a bit more widely knowledgeable about some of the important landmarks of this country as well as keeping their unnecessary opinions as to life in Milton Keynes off the air." 

ROB	Oh dear. 

LIZ	Just saying. 

ROB	Well this is the Ouch podcast not QI, I'm not a polymath surprising as it may be to some. 

LIZ	Although it is Milton Keynes, Rob, isn't it? 

ROB	Is it Milton... and I must apologise I don't know anything about Milton Keynes at all and I've been busted big time. 

LIZ	Ask you about Venezuela then that's fine. 

MAT	Listeners this is what happens when you leave a ‘bino in charge of a flipper man's job. 

ROB	Can I, if I can ever go back, sort of Orwell style and rewrite the podcast, I will exchange Milton Keynes for, let's say the Isles of Scilly... 

LIZ	Nice.

ROB	... guaranteed there's no canals there.

MAT	But can I say as the regular host of the Talk Show that I think Milton 
Keynes Grand Union Canals is possibly one of the most beautiful nature reserves I've ever seen in Britain. 

ROB	But I don't know Shropshire Union though that's got the reputation, it's the big boy isn't it the Shropshire Union. 

LIZ	So listeners if you do have a... 

MAT	But it doesn't have concrete cows. 

ROB	Er, no that's true. 

LIZ	If you have a favourite canal listeners please write in. 

ROB	Not to us, but do write in. 

LIZ	We'll read them out on our straw poll next month. But do, please do send in your emails, you know we love them at ouch@bbc.co.uk. That's ouch@bbc.co.uk
ROB	Can I tell you my volcano refugee story? 

MAT	Absolutely. 

LIZ	You're dying to aren't you, look at you raring to go. 

MAT	You're here for the news but we want your anecdotes. 

ROB	I'm going to begin with the volcano refugee story. I was in Liechtenstein last week writing a couple of travel stories over there. And then the volcanic ash happened, couldn't get home and I was thrown out of the country. 

MAT	What!

ROB	One of the richest tourism boards in Europe said that it is ((speaking with a German accent)) "This is just nature" you know and threw me out. So I had a maxed-out credit card I literally had about ten Swiss francs on me so I ended up – other networks are available of course – but I do a travel slot on Six Music on Sunday mornings, so I did a live link up from my hotel room where I made a semi serious plea for anybody with a spare bed in Liechtenstein to come forward, and then I was planning really to scout out a park bench. But Liechtenstein's one of the last absolute monarchies in the world and Prince Hans-Adam II lives in a medieval castle above the capital village. So my plan was to go up there bang on his door and beg for mercy, "I'm a disabled refugee please help me".
 
MAT	Oh man that would have made such a good story. 

ROB	It would have been great but it didn't happen because amazingly this Bavarian couple who were living in the Swiss border town of St. Gallen phoned up the BBC - they were listening on iPlayer – drove to Liechtenstein... 

LIZ	No!

ROB	... picked me up, took me to a funk club behind St. Gallen railway station, got me wrecked on Schnapps and I thought I might be ending up in a sex dungeon. 

MAT	I was going to say. 

ROB	((inaudible)) for a week and they didn't try and rape me once, it was 
brilliant. 

LIZ	I mean you're looking fine whatever they did to you, you're looking quite happy. 

ROB	Such generosity. And that's the only thing travel writers should do is have adventures, you know, ((inaudible)) 

MAT	You're a very brave man. 

ROB	I think they were braver. 

LIZ	Why were they throwing you out the country, were they doing that to everyone that was left there, or was it just you? 
ROB	I was the only... Liechtenstein doesn't get a lot of press and now it's getting a lot of bad press and I was the only journalist in Liechtenstein and they didn't really know what to do. So I think they decided to do it by the book and even though I think they had a duty of care to look after me, my editors at my magazines thought they had a duty of care to look after me, they thought otherwise and kicked me out. 

MAT	Yeah ((speaking with a German accent)) "Mr Crossan, in Liechtenstein we do things differently".

ROB	It was pretty much like that. ((speaking with a German accent)) "No this is not our responsibility. What do you have bad eyesight? You cannot drive a car? A big problem for you". 

LIZ	But funny for us. 

MAT	You've turned it into a Bond village.

ROB	((speaking with a German accent))"Ah Mr Crossan we have spotted your fatal weakness. The Prince will not help you now". 

MAT	All right but look we mustn't forget, Rob, is actually here with the news. 

ROB	Yes indeed. 

MAT	So let's have a look at the old news. Now this has been a raging story. 'Comedian laughs at children with Down's Syndrome'. Oh no!

ROB	Oh no, yes it's Frankie Boyle. And yeah there was a situation whereby he made a lot of jokes about people with Down's Syndrome at one of his gigs recently at the Hexagon Theatre in Reading, which I'm sure you both know well. He basically started asking questions like, "Why do people with Down's Syndrome always have bowl haircuts and bad clothes?" And then started heckling or responding at least to a member of the audience called Sharon Smith who shouted at Frankie Boyle that, you know, her child had Down's Syndrome and she found the gags a little bit offensive. To which Frankie Boyle replied, "Well people with Down's Syndrome die earlier anyway." And I think this was generally the scope (scoop?) and obviously there's been quite a lot of rage about it. Frankie Boyle afterwards said it was the most embarrassing moment of his career to date.
 
MAT	That's got to be something to note, Frankie Boyle's most embarrassing moment. 

LIZ	I believe he said that on the stage at the time actually. 

ROB	But my take on this is... 

MAT	Wow!
ROB	... I think it's okay to break taboos and this idea that this is a return to the '70s and Bernard Manning or whatever. I mean in the '70s there was no scope in the media for an alternative point of view whereas I think now there is, so we're able to have more open debates about thing like this. So, I mean, I don't believe it is a return to more primitive times but I don't know if that's your... 

MAT	I don't know. It's the whole thing... is the whole thing a post modern – I'm going to broaden it out – is the whole thing a post modern take on the old school of comedy. Or is it just a return to the old school of comedy? I think that's the big debate isn't it? 

ROB	I think it's a return to the old school of comedy but now we have scope to respond to it in a way in which there were only three TV channels we couldn't do. 

MAT	But Scope are never very good at responding are they? 

ROB	Well I don't know. I mean are they... 

MAT	I liked it better when they were the Spastic Society. 

ROB	Are they known as having bad PR then for charities?

MAT	I want to... and I hereby decree a new aspect of the Talk Show – what does Liz think?
 
LIZ	Why? 

MAT	What do you think? 

LIZ	Well as I said on the Today programme on Radio 4. 

MAT	Ooh get her! 

LIZ	No it's like... 

ROB	I plugged Six Music you had to trump me didn't you? 

MAT	When we were on our proper radio programmes. I'm with you listeners, 
I like the Talk Show okay? You're the best not them. 

LIZ	But that's what they do, it's like oh let's get a disabled person, let's get a disabled person who's a comedian on to talk about this and see what's fine. And they said to me so, you know, "Who's right and who's wrong? Is it the woman who was upset? Is it Frankie Boyle?" And I said, well you know, firstly sort of shock horror comedian tells offensive joke, comedians tell offensive jokes all the time and the woman did know what she was... she knows Frankie Boyle, his stuff, she wanted a front row seat and all that. What she didn't pay for was to personally be targeted which is what happened. So I don't think things are taboo in comedy as Rob says. I think where he was a bit stupid is actually that he picked on her and he carried on. He didn't sort of just get out of it and say, "Okay I'm sorry let's move on". Or even make a comedy quip he was kind of well I don't really give a whatever and it's my last tour so who cares. So I think he was just a bit ridiculous. 

ROB	But she wasn't personally attacked. Frankie Boyle responded to her, she initiated the argument. 

LIZ	Yeah, no absolutely. 

MAT	I think also if Frankie Boyle at the moment listeners in case you don't know is probably – correct me if I'm wrong guys – but probably known as the most offensive comedian in Britain at the moment, or one of them in terms of his material. If you choose to sit in the front row, you know what sitting in the front row means at a comedy gig, it means you're fair game. 

ROB	Yeah. 

MAT	At a Frankie Boyle gig then in a way you are courting... 

ROB	You're a lamb to the slaughter. 

LIZ	And also I'd say, you know, I mean really you know what it always comes back when you get these calls to talk about this or we're talking about today, it seems to always be the same question – can we laugh at disability? That's really all they wanted to know. And one of the things that the researcher said to me which I think was an interesting point, is he said, "The thing is here is that he was laughing at disabled children aren't they defenceless?" And it's kind of like well aren't you being patronising in also saying that. I know what you're getting at - are there some people that we shouldn't be laughing at all? 

MAT	That battle rages listeners, tell us what you think. 

LIZ	Yeah it 's a tough one, lots of views on it so please do write in. 'Disabled dog in Hollywood Show Stopper'. Eh! No we've moved on from that segment now. 

MAT	Oh.

ROB	Yeah this is just a little piece from The Daily Mirror which I quite enjoyed. It's Nubbins, the Boston Terrier who apparently upstaged Jennifer Lopez at the premier of The Back-Up Plan is the name of the film. The dog, in the movie, in real life it's Nubbins, in the film it's called Nuts. And the problem I think that we have with this situation is that in the film the dog has a little pair of wheels on its back legs. But the dog's not really disabled. 

MAT	Oh this is... 

LIZ	NO! 

MAT	I CAN'T ALLOW THIS! 

LIZ	Not again. 

MAT	WHAT'S GOING ON? They're even cripping up animals now. 

ROB	Exactly. There's loads of dogs with those little wheelie back leg things. 

LIZ	There are, give them a chance. 

ROB	Why can't they use a real one? 

MAT	They can all look at the hand next to the camera with the chocolate bar. 

ROB	Surely it's more difficult to get an able bodied dog and then try and train it up through some kind of doggie method acting to make it disabled. 

MAT	But it's the golden rule of Hollywood... 

ROB	Just use a crip dog in the first place. 

MAT	The golden rule of Hollywood that proves it. Oh my God that's unbelievable. 

ROB	It is. 

MAT	They'll be dogs, they'll be militant dogs all over the world secretly planning an attack on their back legs. 

ROB	Some kind of revolution. 

LIZ	Little placards. 

ROB	I hope there is some kind of protest outside the studios of MGM you know lots of little dogs. 

MAT	That would be fantastic. 

ROB	We only want, we only want equality. 

MAT    Wow I'm stunned but we must go on. 

ROB	Shall we have a pause for thought? 

LIZ	Oh! 

ROB	Sorry. 

LIZ	Well that was a sorry tale. 

MAT	Let's move on. Oh no please stop. A little bit of alliteration to lead into your next one 'A Right Royal Raspberry Restraining Order'. Hm? 

ROB	Like it nice. That wasn't the actual headline that's far better than the actual headline which is 'Disabled Tongan Prince wins restraining order against wife'. It made me want to read on I don't know about you? 

MAT	I would want to read on. 

LIZ	Which newspaper was this in? 

ROB	This was just from that newsfeed from the Associational Press.

LIZ	Okay. 

ROB	Yes I'm going to have an absolute nightmare here with pronunciation. 

MAT	Here we go. 

ROB	Right here we go. So the cousin of King Saiosi Tupou V has won a restraining order against his wife who is Makeleta Ene'io Tuku'aho from going – that doesn't sound very Tongan does it? 

LIZ	Not the way you pronounce it. 

ROB	Not the way I say it, I'm so sorry to any Tongan listeners, and I know you like to listen. She's been restrained from going within 50 metres of her husband without his consent. This is because the wife attacked the poor prince – I've got to say poor prince – with an electric fan stand causing cuts and bruises to his head, arms, legs and back. Now the prince says – who lost a leg to diabetes by the way which is why he's in a wheelchair... 

LIZ	I was wondering. 

ROB	Said he feared that Princess Makeleta – you know what I'm saying – was going to assault him again endangering his life. She was also ordered to remove her belongings from the prince's home and told to stay away from his office and parliament buildings. 

MAT	Hold on a minute – one of those electric fan stands that's one of those giant massive... 

ROB	They're huge. 

MAT	... four foot tall she must be a very strong woman. 

ROB	Well they like their rugby over there. But you've got to be pretty hefty to brandish one of them about haven't you? 

MAT	I mean the Tongans are famous physiologically for being quite sturdy. 

ROB	Hm this is true. 

MAT	But wow I'd be petrified. 

LIZ	Do you think it was carer frustration? Did she need respite? You know 
is it... 

ROB	Well she needed a weekend in Eurodisney. 

MAT	I'd imagine if he was the Prince of Tonga he probably had carers didn't he? 

LIZ	I'm just wondering. 

ROB	Yeah he's the Prince. 

MAT	Exactly. 

ROB	He's not staggering around a beach I think he's probably well looked after. 

LIZ	Why have we not heard... 

ROB	He's just got too many fans that's what it is because he's the prince he's probably got about 80 electric fan stands.  

MAT	Unless it was a human being and it was one of those really old fashioned fanning dispensers, a bit like a punkawallah...

ROB	Someone sort of waving the lotus leaf in front of him. 

MAT	Yes. 

LIZ	Nice. 

MAT	Picked that person up and wielded them around the head. 

ROB	But I've never heard of disability abuse of an electric fan stand particularly not against a Tongan prince. 

LIZ	I never really heard of... 

ROB	I thought it was worth mentioning for those reasons alone. 

LIZ	Well I was excited that there was a disabled prince to be honest. 

MAT	Well I was just about to say and also disability royalty that's a good game. Spot the disabled royal. 

LIZ	In fact I wish you hadn't told us what was wrong with him because I'm thinking we could have got him for Veg, Veg or Veg. 

ROB	I think we should just get him on anyway... 

LIZ	Actually yes. 

ROB	That would be amazing. Let's try, Damon, Emma... 

LIZ	He's looking oh God we have enough trouble getting people from over here. 

MAT	Yeah if we can... 

ROB	Let's run up the BBC phone bill to Tonga. 

LIZ	Rob, headlines you would have liked to have seen? 

ROB	Oh yes. Okay three headlines for this month. 'Heavy Load to replace U2 as Glastonbury headliners after Bono committed to mental asylum'. 

MAT	PRAISE THE LOAD!

ROB	'Piers Morgan to be replaced by stair lift as judge on Britain's Got Talent'. And lastly, 'Volcanic ash puts paid to test flights for first flying wheelchair'. 

MAT	Oh yes. 

LIZ	Oh boo hoo. 

ROB	Can I also... we'll put this up on the website but someone sent me in and I'm really sorry I can't remember the name, it's a beautiful photo of a one legged pigeon standing in front of a wheelchair. 

MAT	It's amazing!

ROB	Look at that look of sturdy defiance on that pigeon. That's a militant pigeon. 

LIZ	It's a seagull. 

MAT	It's actually a seagull. 

ROB	Oh it's a seagull I'm so sorry. 

MAT	The defiant look comes with being a seagull.

LIZ	He's got eye problems it's fine. 

MAT	Thanks very much Rob that was beautiful and we'll see you next month. 

ROB	Volcanos pending I'll see you next month. 

LIZ	Bye. 
[Jingle: Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable]
It's back full of metaphor wit and beauty, yes it's the life enhancing radio game that the world's infirm and vulnerable people can't wait to play. 

MAT	We get a disabled caller on the line every month and have to work out what's wrong with them. It's about as basic a guessing game as you can get. And on the line to play this month is Diane. 

LIZ	Hello Diane. 

DIANE  Hey.

MAT	Hey Diane, how are you? 

DIANE  I’m very good. 

LIZ	Very good. And we believe you are calling from Denmark? 

DIANE  That's right, yeah. 

LIZ	What are you doing... have you been affected by, have you still not got home after the volcano or are you out there doing something more interesting? 

DIANE Oh much more interesting. I made my own alternative plan to get to Denmark because of the volcano so I didn't fly but I drove instead. 

LIZ	Ah oh that must have taken a while. 

MAT	Hello. ((inaudible)) she can drive? 

LIZ	She can drive yeah. 

MAT	Be careful Diane you know how sneaky we are in trying to eek out those disability details... 

LIZ	You know how good we are... 

MAT	... in our pre chat. 

LIZ	... at this game as well. 

MAT	She can drive and she's allowed to travel abroad. Right. 

LIZ	If she can drive what doesn't... well she's not blind then. 

MAT	Hold on a sec. Diane, a couple of things – how is Denmark? 

DIANE	Wet and rainy. 

MAT	Okay. 

LIZ	And what are you doing there? Are you there for a cure? 

MAT	Kill or cure. 

DIANE	I work for an international development charity and I'm at their conference for a few days. 

LIZ	So she works as well. 

MAT	She's having a freebie. 

LIZ	She works and she drives. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	And she's having a freebie holiday with the other ((0:26:28.7?)) 

LIZ	And is it accessible? 

DIANE	It's pretty accessible. I'm a little bit disappointed you can't get disabled reductions on the rail network like you can in the UK. 

MAT	Fascists! 

LIZ	We don't like that, we like a bargain. 

DIANE	And the signage isn't so good. 

LIZ	So she can read. 

DIANE	But so far so good, people haven't sort of ((0:26:48.3?))

MAT	She's not blind, she can drive. 

DIANE	... asked too many questions. 

LIZ	And she screws the system. Okay anyway so where are we, right. 

MAT	Let's play the game, let's play the game.

LIZ	Shall we. I'm going to read the rules. 

MAT	Here we go. 

LIZ	Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must only answer ‘yes’ or ‘no’. It's both classic and therapeutic.

MAT	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. Diane, are you disabled?

DIANE	Yes. 

MAT	Right. 

LIZ	90 seconds on the clock. 

MAT	Your time starts NOW!

LIZ	Are you deaf?

DIANE	No. 

LIZ	Well worth a try. 

MAT	Are you a wheelchair user?

DIANE	No. 

MAT	Can you walk? 

DIANE	Yes. 

LIZ	Well otherwise...

MAT	Can you walk unaided?

DIANE	Er no. 

LIZ	Do you have a stick? 

DIANE	No. 

MAT	Do you have crutches? 

DIANE	Er yes. 

LIZ	Do you have a calliper? 

DIANE	No.

MAT	Do you have a prosthetic leg? 

DIANE	Yes. 

MAT	Are you an amputee?

DIANE	Partly. 

MAT	Is that your disability? 

DIANE	One of them. 

MAT	Hold on a sec the music's stopped. I've got one of them and that technically means WE WIN! 

LIZ	WHEY HEY! 
[Repeating Amputee, Amputee]

MAT	Amput-ee, amput-ee. 

LIZ	Our Dr Who sound effect is telling us amputee. You may have other impairments, Diane, but amputee... 

MAT	Wow we chased you down. 

LIZ	We got you. 

DIANE	No not fair you had to get to the other two. 

MAT	Oh okay. Well come on now that we're in the testimonial, Diane, what 
are the other two impairments that you're living happily with? 

LIZ	Please. 

DIANE	I'm an above knee amputee. 

MAT	Right. 

DIANE	I have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. 

MAT	Nice. That's a pretty good combo. 

LIZ	That's... yes. 

MAT	That's a combo you couldn't get in Subway or any other sandwich providing shop. 

DIANE	And one may have even led to the other. 

LIZ	No is that true or are you just doing that for comedy effect and to tease us? 

DIANE	There's a strong element of truth in it yeah. 

MAT	So when people find out that you're an amputee what do they normally ask you? You know the silly questions we all get asked. 

DIANE	Yeah I often get asked, "Do you have to wear special shoes?" 

MAT	Duh!

DIANE	"Do you have to sleep with your leg on?"

MAT	All the old ones. 

LIZ	Yeah but I want to know. Is it wrong? Do you have to have... not it's fine, it's fine. 

MAT	Now in terms of fashion do you go for the... what do you do with the other trouser leg? 

DIANE	You're assuming I wear trousers there... 

MAT	When you wear trousers Diane. 

LIZ	It's getting a bit nasty. 

MAT	No I'm sorry I'm covering my back because yes that was an assumption I shouldn't have made and I apologise.
 
DIANE	I'm wearing shorts right now. 

MAT	Like it she's out and proud people!

DIANE	I am, I'm out and proud. I've got my shorts on and I've got sort of argyle socks, knee high socks on. 

MAT	Ow! 
DIANE	So naughty Japanese schoolgirl look. 

MAT	All right, steady on the table's rising! 

LIZ	Oh no God. 

MAT	No it's my seat it's started to sink. But what I want to ask this, Diane, so you know with the casing of your prosthetic leg are you so out and proud that you've removed it to the bare metal skeleton or do you still go for the leg look? 

DIANE	Yeah I've just got the robot right out there. 

MAT	I love you. 

LIZ	And does it have a shoe attached or do you... 

DIANE	And I love my leg. 

LIZ	Do you put real shoes on it? I don't know these are... I can understand... 

DIANE	Yes I have real shoes Liz. I've a variety of real shoes.

MAT	You've offended her now. 

DIANE	I buy them off the shelf like everyone else. 

LIZ	Ah. 

MAT	So picture this listeners... 

LIZ	I wanted to know I'm sorry. 

MAT	... a European monoped in the Japanese schoolgirl look apparently going round a conference in Copenhagen at the moment. 

LIZ	Before you go, Diane, could you give us an interesting and surprising fact about your particular disability? 

DIANE	Interesting and surprising fact. 

LIZ	Apart from I mean I have now learnt you wear normal shoes, I mean I'm floored about that to be honest. But go on something more than that. 

DIANE	Interesting fact – 100 new amputees a week from diabetes in the UK. 

MAT	Oh is that how you lost your leg? 
DIANE	No, no, no I don't have diabetes, I was a road traffic accident. 

MAT	Okay. I was only... I'm not big on how did you get like that personally but... 

LIZ	No I am. 

MAT	... seeing as you mentioned it that's an interesting statistic. 

LIZ	Yes. 

DIANE	Well it's a big question a lot of people say, "Well how..." you know, "what happened to you?" 

MAT	Yeah. 

DIANE	There's a little bit of a sort of hierarchy amongst amputees... 

MAT	Is there? Who's the best?  Which are the best... 

LIZ	Tell us. 

MAT	... ones and which are the worst? 

DIANE	Well you know people coming back from wars. 

MAT	Oh they're the best aren't they because they're heroes?

DIANE	People's amputations because of cancer or meningitis.

MAT	I suppose the people who lose it because of smoking are the worst aren't they?

DIANE	Well if you smoked and are diabetic, or you've been riding around on motorbikes too fast all those things. 

LIZ	So where do you rate in all that? 

MAT	Where are you in the charts? 

DIANE	Oh I'm in the middle. 

MAT	Coming in at number five. 

LIZ	I didn't want to say middle of the road, that seems wrong but yeah. 

DIANE	No middle of the road, I was in the middle of the road that's how I lost my leg. 
MAT	Hey ching-ching! Claire I can clearly tell, Diane sorry, I can clearly tell that you're anything but middle of the road. Thank you for being the wonderful extremist you are. 

LIZ	Thank you so much. 

DIANE	Lovely to speak to you both. 

LIZ	We've given her a mug. We're giving you a mug apparently. 

MAT	We're giving you a mug is she not getting a t-shirt?

LIZ	No sshh, sshh.

MAT	Oh sorry.

DIANE	Oh I definitely need the travel mug because I travel so much with my job. 

MAT	Oh right. Well in no way is it a prize because this wasn't a competition. It's merely a gift from us to you. Well thanks very much.

DIANE	Can I signed as well please? 

MAT	A what? 

DIANE	Can I have it signed by you two please? 

MAT	Signed. How do you sign a mug? 

LIZ	I don't know but we can both write. 

DIANE	I think you can get a permanent marker can't you and scribble on it then I promise I'll never drink from it. 

MAT	Well we'll give it a go, we can't promise but we'll certainly give it a go I promise you that. 

LIZ	Diane, you've been fantastic. Thank you. 

MAT	Thank you very much and goodbye. 

DIANE	Goodbye. Bye, bye. 

MAT	Yes it's not much of an incentive listeners but if you do come on the show and play our game next month we'll send you one of our t-shirts or travel mugs or some other tat we've got in the cupboard. Please email ouch@bbc.co.uk and put 'I have absolutely no dignity at all' in the subject line. 

[Jingle: Mat Fraser, Liz Carr bbc.co.uk/ouch]

[Playing music]

Yeah if you're waiting for SashaTC you can hear the full track in about ten minutes, so stay listening and none of that fast forwarding malarkey all right? 

LIZ	Thanks to everyone that came to see us at Naidex. Yes Ouch had a stall there. 

MAT	Yeah another trade fair that I missed. What was Naidex? What does it stand for – Need Another Disability Expensive Thing?

LIZ	Well okay so we were at the NEC which is a big, big exhibition centre in Birmingham. And Naidex is that it's a big, big, huge trade show for disability equipment. 

MAT	Oh okay. Stair lifts etc? 

LIZ	That's one, wheelchairs, adjustable beds – you name it okay, all those things to make life easier, they're all there. And Ouch had a stall so, as I say, thanks to everyone we got loads of people signing up and going "Thank God you're here" because it's a pretty humourless place, do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	Oh yes. And they have like different zones where they have workshops and they have lectures and sort of Ouch did, we did a thing on travel, we did a sort of discussion on travel, then we had a couple of comedians, we had Gareth Berliner we had Steve Day doing comedy slots... 

MAT	They're both great disabled comedians. 

LIZ	But all of the rest of the stuff was like 'Pressure sores – how to cope' do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Oh no. 

LIZ	And 'Modern Thinking in Incontinence. I saw one it was great it was 'Standing up and sitting down – is it really that difficult? I mean just... 

MAT	Well depends if you've got legs or not I would have thought. 

LIZ	So that's what you missed, Mat, because I know we did miss you not being there. 

MAT	I think I missed two or three now and I mean they are what they are trade fairs. I mean I guess we need them but attending them can be a bit depressing for a disabled person can't it? It's a bit like a massive hospital ward is it? 

LIZ	It was like that and it was interesting to see the mix of people because I'd say two thirds are therapists. I mean you're kind of scared that as you're wheeling around... 

MAT	Oh people looking around for contracts.

LIZ	Yeah. And you're being assessed as you go around. 

MAT	Do they have like secret government officials there like checking people... 

LIZ	They’re looking at you. 

MAT	... for their DLA?

LIZ	Absolutely. "Look at that, look at the flexibility in her arms". I mean they are they do look at you in that way. And then the rest are kind of disabled people. I know a bunch from the Ouch message board gathered, you know, to sort of go round. And disabled people go, I think, I would go to see what's the latest kit. 

MAT	And what, can you give me an example of a couple of latest innovations? 

LIZ	Well I did see... there were a few things that I loved, and one of them was they had wheelchair accessible playground equipment for kids. So they had a swing that you could just wheel on. And they had a roundabout that you could just wheel a kid on, a little crippy kid on. 

MAT	What like clip the chair to the roundabout? 

LIZ	Yeah and just spin them round. And I thought that was... I loved the sort of non disability, you know, not really heavy handed stuff. There was an awful lot adjustable beds, an awful lot of wheelchairs, an awful lot of oh those chairs, those big armchairs that they think we sit in, they’re usually wipe clean, do you know what I mean? And they help you... 

MAT	I think they're for the slightly older disabled person maybe are they?
 
LIZ	Oh they were selling them for every... I got offered them how offended was I? Do you know what I'm saying? I know I'm 38 but that's not fair, you know. 

MAT	To them you're just a chequebook though maybe. 

LIZ	Do you know what it did feel like that because so much of it is out of your range, you just can't afford it Mat. 

MAT	How much is a state of the art chair, you know the one you're talking about. The wipe clean chair that they sit in the front of the window of that independent living shop? 

LIZ	Where you stand up and it lowers you down. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	One of them. 

MAT	Usually beige. 

LIZ	I think they're around £1,000 from what I was seeing. 

MAT	Is that all? 

LIZ	Oh yeah. 

MAT	For the average non employed disabled person ha!

LIZ	I'd want to see one of those on wheels though. Now that could be fun going round all the, you know, ((inaudible)).
 
MAT	You'd have to sell a leg. 

LIZ	But you've not been. You've never been and encountered this? 

MAT	I mean I was at an event when next door there was the trade part of it and then I looked in and again it was the lifts and it was the chairs and it was the clumpy things that didn't really attract me because there were no utensils for thalidomide people, and that's what I need in a trade fair. 

LIZ	It's very random because as you're going round all the stalls to lure you in have bowls of sweets so it's kind of like they're trying to make us all diabetic in order to cripple us so that we then have to buy their rubbish, do you know what I mean? 

MAT	That on the one side of the coin and on the other the assumption that all of us are actually children inside. 

LIZ	Oh nice, get you being ((inaudible)) it's either sweets or it's stress balls. I'm like how stressed is it being disa--... I mean obviously it can be, but stress balls were the big things. And there were a couple of stalls giving out ice cream. There was a company selling accessible bathrooms and I need to talk about the bathroom and kitchens. 
MAT	Hold on a minute, so they're offering you, it just sounds like a really weird grooming situation going on. Sweets and ice cream and then straight to the bedroom... bathroom sorry. Oops Freudian slip. 

LIZ	A bit of both. There was, Mat, because I know you're moving into a new place and all that. 

MAT	I am well that's the whole point I'm all about adapting kitchens. 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	It's all about for me I need a flid kitchen. 

LIZ	You would've... there were a few... 

MAT	Hold on. 

LIZ	... examples, a few sort of... they were beautiful. 

MAT	They've got the slidey drawers?

LIZ	They had that slide silently. 

MAT	And then just that last half inch that they... 

LIZ	Just at that moment they tease you and... 

MAT	... instead of going bang they go ((making silent sliding noise)).

LIZ	Yeah. And then the surfaces raise up and down. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	And down. 

MAT	Oh my God. 

LIZ	Okay. And then there's like mixer taps, just saying. 

MAT	This is like a massage to me. 

LIZ	You turn it on and it gushes hot and cold.

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	And it's wet. And then you press a button... 

MAT	It's a family show, Liz. 

LIZ	Okay. Anyway you press a button and then the doors open. 

MAT	Hey. 

LIZ	But the shelves come out and down. 

MAT	Yeah, no like in German thalidomide kitchens you press a button, the shelves come out of a cupboard and down and come to you. I'm like, "Why don't we have that?" Well we do courtesy of the Naidex trade fair. 

LIZ	Just had the producer say that he's never heard accessible kitchens compared to porn and discussed in a porn way. 

MAT	Well Nigella maybe invented food porn, we've got kitchen porn for the disabled. 

LIZ	Wait until I tell you about the raising toilet seats. 

MAT	I mean it's enough for me one of those crippy veg scrapers. So what was the newest thing in the kitchen because the thing I have the... I suppose the most difficult thing for me is the top cupboard and the bottom cupboard. Like if I want to get the big plates out I have to lie on the floor and with my foot reach into the bottom of the back cupboard. 

LIZ	Well of the... so the bottom cupboard is what you'd have I think is the baskets that come out. You'd have shelving that you would pull out. 

MAT	Remember listeners I need this because I have horribly truncated and foreshortened little flippers... 

LIZ	Here we go. In case you've forgotten over the last four years Mat Fraser is thalidomide and yeah... 

MAT	So that's why I'm lying on the floor with my leg in a cupboard. Anyway go on. 

LIZ	And also the top shelves like I say you'd press a button and it all comes out and down. 

MAT	How much is that? 

LIZ	They don't have prices. 

MAT	If you need to ask you can't afford it. 

LIZ	If you need to ask you have to go to your social worker and beg and say you absolutely need it. 

MAT	Does it just have a sign above saying 'No DLA'?

LIZ	To be honest it's the realms of compensation crips I think a lot of them. 
MAT	Oh!

LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 

MAT	The top one percent. 

LIZ	The top one percent. I'm sorry, if you are one that's great. 

MAT	And I am. 

LIZ	Give us a bit. Yeah he's one. You know but it's kind of like that you can only privately afford them. 

MAT	I'll have two of those. 

LIZ	Just rub it in. 

MAT	I will. 

LIZ	Just rub it in, you know. 

MAT	Like a lotion. 

LIZ	There we were listeners at the cafe earlier and he was just saying he 
said, "Oh I'll buy a round" and for the first time ever he's rich, rich he is. 

MAT	Rich beyond my wildest dreams!

LIZ	Listeners don't want to hear that they're scrabbling round on their benefits. 

MAT	I'm not rich, Liz, I'm not rich. 

LIZ	Oh you are inside. 

MAT	Yeah well I am now. 

LIZ	You are personality-wise you are. 

MAT	That's because I've got the love of your friendship and the listenership of the Ouch people. 

LIZ	Oh this is sick. This is sick. Why do you want this accessible kitchen? 

MAT	Because I'm bored, Liz, all my life I've struggled. In my current house to chop veg I have to get on my knees. Then the surface is adjacent to my neck but at least I can see and chop the veg. 

LIZ	I'm thinking because I'm, you know, I've talked about this before I didn't use to know where my kitchen was. 

MAT	And now you're the veritable Condon Bleu.

LIZ	Well I love cooking now. 

MAT	I know you love it. 

LIZ	And I think because what I love more than cooking is TV cookery programmes. I'm bereft at the moment because Masterchef's not on. 

MAT	Uh-huh!

LIZ	It's the two weeks in the air where there's not a Masterchef on and it's distressing. But I think wouldn't it be great you, me, a few other crips Come Dine With Me the disabled version? 

MAT	Oh my word that would be awesome! 

LIZ	Explain, explain because some poor people will not know what Come Dine With Me is. 

MAT	Well Come Dine with Me is a programme were basically you sort of get this week's contestant to put on dinner and they help you do the dinner basically. And you have guests and everything and it's all rather three courses and cutlery in the right place and a little bit middle class. 

LIZ	Oh yeah. Four of you and you go round to each other's house every night and you entertain and it's who at the end... and you vote on who's got the best... 

MAT	And that's right. And then people say, "Well I like David's pudding because it was a bit like that" you know it's like a reality programme but it's slightly competitive and all very... a little bit, I mean, God can you... so what would the line up be? 

LIZ	Oh just... 

MAT	They'd be me and you right? 

LIZ	Yeah but also I think we'd have to judge people on how well they coped in the kitchen, do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Yeah. Ah I tell you saying this as a joke I think it's a viable proposition. 

LIZ	I'd want a blindy in there. 

MAT	Absolutely. 

LIZ	So want a blindy. 

MAT	A blindy. 

LIZ	Blindy cook because do you know... 

MAT	You'd have to have a spas. 

LIZ	I think they've got all the... 

MAT	A wheelie. 

LIZ	... sort of talking everything that would be brilliant on TV wouldn't it? 

MAT	((talking very fast)) "What did it say?" It said, "Use two cups of brown “sugar". 

LIZ	I don't think deaf. Do we need anyone deaf? 

MAT	Oh I'm sick of the deaf. 

LIZ	Do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Seen enough of them on telly. 

LIZ	That's it. They get their sign programmes at one in the morning, do you we need to do anything else.
 
MAT	Stop complaining will you? 

LIZ	It's fine they can still cook. 

MAT	No. So we have you, a wheelchair user, a thalidomide, a blindy and a spaser. 

LIZ	Yeah.
 
MAT	But a proper spaser do you know what I mean? 

LIZ	Yeah. Or a mad person or a person with learning difficulties? 

MAT	Oh hold on the producer's just said, "What about the mental people?" 

LIZ	Yeah, no I think that's it. "Don't let them near the hot stuff! Get the knives away." Maybe. 

MAT	What's happened to us?

LIZ	I don't... 

MAT	It's this wholly constructed theme I mean ((inaudible)).

LIZ	But do you know what I really want to see that programme.
 
MAT	No I genuinely do, for the tasting bit at the end. 

LIZ	Nobody would eat it. Oh and then... 

MAT	What was the meal?  

LIZ	You'd have the PAs coming in to feed us. 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	I mean... That's the end of the show for this month. So Mat does it leave you happy or a bit of a sour taste in your mouth? 

MAT	UNBELIEVABLY HAPPY!

LIZ	Oh joy of joys another one. Oh it was good. 

MAT	Thanks to our over lords, masters, and let's face it, censors the Ouch production team here at the BBC. That's Damon Rose and Emma Tracey. Thanks also to Amy Gardner and the studio manager, Andy Rushton. 

LIZ	We're playing out this month with a track from 26 year old Sascha TV from North London. Disability fact fans yes she's a crutches user and has a nerve and muscle related condition. No she really does because she couldn't be with us today, she at a hospital appointment, I know, keeping it real. So find out more about her on her website she's at MySpace.com/officialsaschatc and Sascha is spelt SASCHA.

MAT	The track is called Love is Blind and it'll start as soon as we stop. So until next month, farewell. 

LIZ	Adieu. Goodbye. 

MAT	Au revoir. 

[Playing music]