Ouch Podcast #57 – October 2010
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr

The Ouch Podcast is a download from the BBC. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.

MAT	On the latest Ouch Talk show we'll be heading to Finland to play Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. I wonder if they have the same disabilities as us up there. 	
LIZ	And later we have disabled musician, Nick Rockcliffe, our undersigned artist. Oh and some mindless chat, only we're not allowed to say mindless. 	
MAT	Doh! 	
LIZ	Mental is fine. 
[Jingle: From the BBC in London it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr]
Mat, do you have any disabled friends that you think, you know that you're not really that disabled? 	
MAT	Yeah. 	
LIZ	Do you? 	
MAT	Yeah of course you do. I'm terribly judgemental about it. 	
LIZ	I've been wanted to say this for a long time and I've been a bit scared to say it.	
MAT	Although I always I want to hear it but I always get worried that there's going to be a chart, a hierarchical chart of disability, and now at number three Spina Bifida. 	
LIZ	Spina Bifida they're on the decline. 	
MAT	Going down... 	
LIZ	It's Muscular Atrophy. 	
MAT	What's coming up? ADHD is straight in at number two. 	
LIZ	Whoo! But there is an informal one but I did have mates, you know, crip mates, and I was working with somebody recently and I just thought you know you've got all the bells and whistles to do with disability, you've got everything, but I think you can do a lot more than you do. 	
MAT	Come on you're not trying hard enough!	
LIZ	Oh my God, I think on my God I should work for the DSS or the Social Services or the people that make the benefit decisions over here, then I feel like a Tory or anyone in government then I just feel rotten but I just had to say it, I'm really sorry. 	
MAT	So this is obviously a burning issue for you. You've got a niggle let's get it out, out on the table. Who is it? 	
LIZ	No yeah like I'm going to say. 	
MAT	Name and shame. 	
LIZ	No. No. 	
MAT	It's not like any of your friends listen to this. 	
LIZ	No this is true. They stopped in show five, as did most of the listeners. No, no, no. 	
MAT	No we're upping our listenership. 	
LIZ	Are we? 	
MAT	Yeah. 	
LIZ	We're going to aim to do that in this show. 	
MAT	That's right. 	
LIZ	In this show alone. So keep tuned. Yeah we have plans to take over the podcasting world. But there are people that I think actually I really do... 	
MAT	Is it your friend Penny?	
LIZ	Our friend Penny no she's really crippled. 	
MAT	I know she's one of those crippled people I know. 	
LIZ	Absolutely and she's on... 	
MAT	It's certainly not Kaz. 	
LIZ	She's on a lot of pain... in a lot pain a lot of drugs no that's all cool. I know it's my prejudice and my judgements as well, of course it is, we all see people and we think... 	
MAT	It must be really difficult to have to comb your hair to the left. 	
LIZ	But you said you knew what I was talking about. So I'm the one that's come out with all this vitriol today... 	
MAT	And I'm playing devil's advocate aren't I? Of course I have disabled friends who I'm thinking, hm is that a disability, I don't know. Is just not having a right thumb actually an impairment?	
LIZ	So we've had this email from Laurel from the States and she wouldn't have ever considered herself disabled, she wears glasses and contacts. But she went to this presentation on anti-discrimination legislation and they said, "Yeah you're disabled." So she's now feeling a bit guilty and what would 'proper' blind people what would they make of her and would we think that's she's not really, you know... 	
MAT	What because she's got severe myopia?	
LIZ	Yes. 	
MAT	Well I think it's down to the definition of disability isn't it? In the medical definition of disability she's disabled. 	
LIZ	Do you know what, our blind producer's just going "which can be corrected!" Ooh! 	
MAT	Unlike our producer's tragic and permanent for life blindness. 	
LIZ	How long have you been blind, Damon? Twenty six long years. Wow! What's the last thing you can remember seeing Damon? Come on through and tell us... 	
MAT	Come on through. 	
LIZ	... about your blindness. 	
MAT	Please.	
LIZ	Here we've got the producer coming through, this is a rare treat, listeners, as you'll know.	
MAT	It's the second time it's ever happened isn't it? 	
LIZ	I think it is. But you know what he was quite spritely. I think he does want to come and talk about... 	
MAT	He does. You get him on his subject, you know what people are like. 	
LIZ	Absolutely. 	
da	I can't believe you're talking about this. 	
LIZ	Well why can't we? 	
da	If my mum was listening to this show she would be gutted... 	
MAT	Other way, other way, back a bit.	
da	What?	
MAT	Back a bit. 	
LIZ	Turn the chair around. 	
MAT	And sit now. 	
da	Okay yeah I'll sit. 	
LIZ	There you go. 	
MAT	Okay we've got him in the chair. 	
LIZ	He's at twelve o'clock.	
Da	What was the question again? What was the last thing I ever saw?	
LIZ	Yes. Well because you're older than twenty six, you said you about to be forty. 	
da	I'm forty next week. 	
LIZ	Wow!	
MAT	What was the last thing you ever saw the colour yellow? 	
da	It was a sort of magnolia colour so can you guess what I was looking at? 	
LIZ	The walls of the hospital	
da	I was looking at the wall yeah the operating theatre I was just about to go into. 	
LIZ	No now this has taken a bad... 	
da	Now do you feel bad, Liz Carr?	
MAT	That's tragic. 	
da	Now do you feel bad? 	
LIZ	You're not really... 	
da	You can't just say these hideous things about disabled people on the radio... 	
MAT	Moving on...	
da	... and expect to get away with it. 	
LIZ	But you got us into it you employed us. 	
MAT	As a hardcore blindy does somebody with merely severe myopia count as disabled? She wants to know. 	
da	I wouldn't have thought so. 	
LIZ	I mean do you know what we're talking about here. Do you have mates and you think oh God you're not really disabled it's only a bit of dyslexia or whatever. 	
MAT	That's the one though isn't it? 	
LIZ	Do you know what I mean?	
MAT	No but listen that's the one they always go for dyslexia isn't a disability. However the National Association of Dyslexic People would beg to differ, because under the social model of disability it's a huge disability. 	
da	Yeah totally. But it's one of those things it's very, very important in our culture to be able to read. Whereas 200 years ago, I've heard some friends argue, it wouldn't have mattered – dyslexia they probably wouldn't have even noticed. 	
LIZ	Yeah but, Damon, secretly do you think that's a fair weather condition?	
da	I'm not going to be drawn on this one. There's no way. 	
LIZ	I think your silence speaks volumes to be honest. 	
MAT	What about mild depression? 	
da	I think it's... I've already said it's one hell of an issue. 	
LIZ	It all is isn't it? 	
da	Mild depression? 	
MAT	Yeah is that a disability? Bipolar is that a disability?	
da	I can't believe you're doing this to me. 	
LIZ	Go on. 	
DA	I can't believe you're doing this to me. Of course it can be. 	
MAT	I've got a friend who's a bear, that's a large hairy gay man, they're called bears right? Now he's Bipolar, he's a Bipolar bear. 	
da	I'm really glad you brought gay people into it because we  just don't talk about that enough on this show do we? 	
MAT	It's got nothing to do... it's the disab--... 	
LIZ	It was just an excuse for Mat to actually get a joke in. 	
MAT	If somebody's bipolar ((multiple voices))	
LIZ	Do you know what, with jokes like that we should be making it up for comedy podcasts. 	
MAT	Why aren't we? 	
LIZ	Damon... 	
MAT	Actually while you're on here, Mr Producer... 	
da	Yeah. 	
MAT	What's going on? 	
da	What? 	
MAT	Definitions. 	
da	What are you asking me?	
MAT	Well... 	
LIZ	Well look... 	
MAT	There's a chart isn't there? How're we doing, how're the listeners, are we on a chart what number are we? 	
DA	Podcast chart. Well we're on iTunes which is how most people get podcasts. 	
MAT	Yeah that's like the official podcast hierarchical chart.	
da	Yeah and we're listed under comedy which is a bit dubious. 	
MAT	Well we have comedy moments. 	
da	Sitting here talking about me having lost my sight in operating theatres and all that kind of thing. 	
MAT	Makes me laugh. 	
da	Hilarious stuff. 	
LIZ	Aren't we a health podcast? 	
da	Well I think we might be under the health category as well but I haven't checked. But comedy we're definitely listed in comedy we're in the sort of popular list of comedy. 	
LIZ	So where are we? 	
MAT	Popular list that's... I feel bad things. Come on what number are we?	
da	Well it's a bit difficult to tell because iTunes don't list it for, I mean they don't list beyond 120. 	
LIZ	Are we not even on the list? Are we in the top 120?	
da	At the moment we're not in the top 120. 	
MAT	Listeners, could you do something about that please? Tell your mates, we need more people. 	
LIZ	How many listeners do we have, Damon? 	
da	I think we're something around the twelve or fifteen thousand.	
LIZ	That's quite a lot. 	
MAT	That's roughly the same percentage as the Liberal Democrats traditionally got. And now they're in a coalition power. So what we need to do is become more right wing and then we'll get more popular. 	
da	People like us though. They've left comments on iTunes. 	
LIZ	Yeah we know we do. We ShonaP87 left on the iTunes list has said, "Ouch ain't too sore. I don't know if this is the review but I'd like to say I'm not disabled but I listen to the podcast anyway because they're really funny. I came across their website while aimlessly clicking around bbc.co.uk so I knew I had to listen." And Adam O.  	
MAT	Yeah it say, "Disability and talking about it is still too much of a taboo subject and this podcast helps to show that it should not be. This podcast is simply fantastic. Well done BBC for supporting this. Well done Mat and Liz, they're both two of the best..." hold on here's the really important bit, "who are two of the best presenters I've heard on anything for a long while." If you could just note that Director of the BBC, thank you. 	
LIZ	"Any prudish people who are frightened of disabled people" he says "you might want to listen to the show." 	
MAT	I don't think that's going to help is it, they're going to be terrified after they listen to us. 	
LIZ	But actually I know we don't get everything right and I know there's lots of stuff we could do and should do, but I met somebody this week in Liverpool. I was in Liverpool and a disabled woman called Ruth came up to me and she said, she was sort of saying hello and all that and then she said, "Okay I've just got to say it now" she said, "the podcast changed my life." She said, "I'm disabled" she has a gimpy hand right. She said, "I've got a gimpy hand."  	
MAT	Is she disabled? 	
LIZ	And she said, "hated it, hated myself and then when I heard you and Mat talking about disability in the way that you do and all the guests" she said, "that's it and she's a great exponent of Disability Pride now and she loves it." 	
MAT	So you know we are doing more important things than merely raising a smile. 	
da	Yeah we are what the disability alternative? Is that what we're calling ourselves? 	
MAT	We're certainly alternative to the mainstream idea of disability that's pumped out to the media day after day.	
LIZ	I mean if we're not... 	
MAT	That sounded a bit militant	
LIZ	So how do we get higher up the list? What are we going to do? 	
da	Well people need to share the podcast, share it on their Facebook pages. 	
LIZ	Pass it on, share it. 	
da	And on Twitter. And email twenty mates telling them about us or something like this, this is probably... 	
MAT	Every listener email twenty mates and tell them to listen to us, for one week we'll be in the charts. 	
da	And go and leave some nice comments on iTunes about us. 	
LIZ	Just to get into 120 wouldn't that be nice? 	
MAT	What we need is famous disabled people to leave messages and stuff, and their glamour will soak us in a more celebrity vibe and people will come and listen to us. 	
LIZ	Well maybe we need to be, if we're a comedy podcast, do we need to be funnier? I mean your bipolar bear joke I mean that's a start. 	
MAT	It was rather good isn't it? 	
LIZ	Yes it was. Or should we go the other way and be more medical? So, Damon, what is wrong with you? 	
da	Not again. 	
MAT	So what was that failed operation for? 	
da	I don't want to talk about it. I'm not going to talk anymore about my... are we calling it impairment these days or disability? 	
LIZ	But we got you in, I never thought we'd get you in.	
da	I know. 	
LIZ	I'm thrilled.	
da	No it's good. Can I go now?	
LIZ	Go back we're fine now. 	
da	We'll report back on where we are in the charts next show. 	
MAT	Hold on he just got up on his own.	
da	Next show in two weeks' time. 	
LIZ	Without an access worker. 	
MAT	He's not as disabled as he thinks. 	
da	Bye. 	
LIZ	Bye, Damon. 	
MAT	Bye, Damon. Quick before he gets to the control panel let's say some things that he never let’s us say. Poo, willy. 	
LIZ	I'm just laughing childishly now. God knows why we're not in the 120 of the highest funniest... 	
MAT	Testicles. 	
LIZ	Ssh he didn't hear that one. 	
MAT	Dumplings as Rob would have us say. Remember that one from the last podcast. 	
LIZ	Ah so there we go. So, Mat... 	
MAT	Hm-mm. 	
LIZ	I have a question. 	
MAT	Yes-um. 	
LIZ	You know I was just asking you about disabled people that we think aren't really that disabled. 	
MAT	Yes. 	
LIZ	Do you ever think you're less crippled than you actually are? 	
MAT	I do. Yes I do but I was rudely reminded that I am in fact remarkably impaired when I was trying the paint the shelves in my new flat. My best mate, Dan, put up all the shelves fantastic, built them in and I'm painting them – imagine the scene of a flipper handed short armed gentlemen trying to get the underside corner of the under the shelves in a place that's too high, so you're on a chair but that makes... too low so you're on a chair, and then getting on a chair makes you too high so you're crouching down on a chair leaning across so much that you might fall off the chair – it's just a nightmare. I don't know why I didn't get Access to Work involved, or I don't know why I just didn't get somebody who's a mate and I could have cooked them dinner and they could have painted the shelves. 	
LIZ	Did it upset you? 	
MAT	It did! I ended up with reminder paint on my face of shame of disability basically. Nice metaphor.	
LIZ	Was it egg coloured? 	
MAT	No it was green. So unfortunately that's not so good with the metaphor.	
LIZ	Nice. No. 	
MAT	It was more like snot which again not very good for a metaphor.	
LIZ	No because I think those moments are like that. I think you know if your world becomes quite accessible around what you can and can't do. 	
MAT	Because in our own home we make it as accessible as we can don't we? 	
LIZ	That's it. And then you're suddenly reminded by something or something happens and it's like oh my God I can't walk, or I can't bend or I can't do that and then it's a bit shocking isn't it sometimes. No matter how long you've had your condition, even if it's twenty six years. 	
MAT	Absolutely. 	
LIZ	So we're getting into this, you know, we're trying different things with the podcast and the Talk Show at the moment so we're trying it twice a month and that kind of thing. So the other thing... 	
MAT	You're bi-monthly aren't you?	
LIZ	Yeah I'm bi-monthly. 	
MAT	That's what I heard. 	
LIZ	So we've got questions and one of our questions that we'd really like you to respond to and we're going to talk about this next time, is which foods do you find the most and the least accessible? Because it really depends on your impairment. 	
MAT	Doesn't it? 	
LIZ	We think this is a great one. What food do you avoid and why? It's not too serious but do tell us what you think. Email us at ouch@bbc.co.uk. You can also email us with any disability questions or dilemmas. We have answers for everything even if they're rubbish we will have a go at responding, so trust me and reply and email us at ouch@bbc.co.uk. If we read your email we'll send you one of our travel mugs. 
The Ouch Talk Show is available from the BBC website as a podcast. If you have iTunes, Juice or any other podcast software you can subscribe to our feed and have it downloaded to your computer or mp3 player every time a new show becomes available. It's so easy. Go to bbc.co.uk/podcast and you'll find us under entertainment. 	
MAT	ENTERTAINMENT! So the BBC thinks disability's entertaining do they? That's outrageous I'm going to write to an MP. 
[Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable]
Yes it's our quiz where we guess what's wrong with the caller on the line. And today it's Scara Heino in Finland. Hello, Scara.	
Scara	Hello. Hi. 	
LIZ	Hello. Good to have you on the line. Yes you're in Finland, you're in Helsinki is that right? 	
Scara	I am yes. 	
LIZ	And what do you do over there? 	
Scara	Well right now I'm a freelance makeup artist.	
LIZ	Okay.	
scara	But I'll be a hairdresser by summer. 	
MAT	Okay. You've just given two vital pieces of information away, Scara. We know now that you can see. 	
LIZ	You can see and you've got hands. But maybe not. Remember we had the piano player without a hand. 	
MAT	Now you've perhaps foolishly, decided to play our famous game, Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable but we want to know what the Finnish for vegetable is. 	
SCARA	Vihannes.	
LIZ	So can you say it, "And now welcome to Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable" in Finnish. 	
SCARA	[Speaking Finnish]	
MAT	Wow!	
LIZ	I love it. 	
MAT	It's like Bjork.	
LIZ	 It is isn't it?	
MAT	Immediately. I'm sorry that must be so annoying for that to be our only term of reference for you and your people, Bjork, it's not, because she's Icelandic and not Finnish. 	
LIZ	Yeah but it's up in, as the producer just told us. 	
MAT	All right. Could you carry on, Liz, quick help us out. Oh the rules. Here we go with the rules. Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must answer only ‘yes’ or ‘no’. It is both classic and therapeutic.	
LIZ	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. Scara, are you disabled?	
SCARA	Yes. 	
MAT	Well before we start, I just have to point out, sorry hiatus, I think Scara's probably the only person in the whole world who heard of the Ouch podcast through my website.	
SCARA	Yes I did. 	
LIZ	Really what were you doing on there? 	
MAT	What were you doing on www.matfraser.co.uk Scara?	
SCARA	Well I'm a fan of yours. 	
LIZ	Ah you've got one. 	
MAT	That could all change now! So shall we play the game? 	
SCARA	Sure. 	
MAT	Okay. Well there's 90 seconds on the clock and your time, Scara, starts NOW!	
LIZ	Scara, are you a moomin? 	
SCARA	A what? 	
LIZ	A moomin.	
SCARA	No. 	
MAT	Is your disability that you speak a weird language that nobody else is interested in? 	
SCARA	Perhaps.	
LIZ	Have you got legs?	
SCARA	Yes.	
MAT	Have you got hands?	
SCARA	Yes. 	
MAT	Thumbs?	
SCARA	Yes.	
LIZ	Have you got ears? 	
SCARA	Yes. 	
LIZ	Hair? 	
SCARA	Yes. 	
LIZ	Is your condition... do you stand up? 	
SCARA	Yes.	
MAT	Have you got Muscular Dystrophy? 	
SCARA	Yes... No. No. No.	
LIZ	Oh he was very excited then, very excited. If I saw you would I know that you were disabled?	
SCARA	No. 	
MAT	Ooh.	
LIZ	If I took a blood test would I know that you're disabled? 	
SCARA	No. 	
MAT	If I made you read out a long complicated thing would I notice you were disabled? 	
SCARA	Maybe. 	
MAT	Are you dyslexic? 	
SCARA	No. 	
LIZ	Thank God. Have you got ADH oh I don't know Attention Deficit?	
SCARA	No. 	
MAT	Multiple Sclerosis?	
SCARA	No.	
LIZ	A bit of a mental health thingy? 	
SCARA	Kind of. 	
MAT	Are you bipolar? 	
SCARA	No. 	
LIZ	Oh man that would have been funny.	
MAT	Wouldn't it?	
LIZ	Anyway. 	
MAT	Help. 	
LIZ	Bipolar. 	
MAT	Are you numb?	
LIZ	Epilepsy, do you have epilepsy? 	
SCARA	No. 	
MAT	Oh the clock, I get panicky I can't think. NO! Beaten.	
LIZ	Oh you won! 	
MAT	Scara Heino from Finland you've beaten us and you've won Vegetable, Vegetable of Vegetable.	
LIZ	It's time for you to tell us what is wrong with you, put us out our misery.	
MAT	Please, please. 	
SCARA	I have Asperger's Syndrome. 	
liZ and MAt	Oohhh! 	
LIZ	That old chestnut. Oh we've had people like you on and we still don't get it. Ah man! What does it all mean, Scara? 	
MAT	When people find out you're an Aspi what do they say?	
SCARA	Well they don't really know what it is and for me it's mainly it means that it makes me really awkward in social situations. And I kind of tend to escape in my own world a bit too much to function with other people sometimes. 	
MAT	Well you seem to be doing pretty well now. Are you on some kind of weird drugs? 	
SCARA	I don't actually. Sometimes I have considered that I should but not yet anyway, no. 	
LIZ	And that's weird because you're, by the sounds of it, you said you're training to be a hairdresser and you're a part time makeup artist, so the work that you do very much involves working with people. 	
SCARA	It is actually but for some reason it's easier when I'm working, it's when I'm interacting with other people in a casual situation that it gets hard. 	
MAT	Well look, as is well documented, people with Asperger's often have an obsession, a compulsion, an obsessive thing -do you have one? 	
SCARA	I kind of do I don't know if it's a normal thing but I do. 	
LIZ	And what is it? 	
MAT	What is it we'll let you know?	
SCARA	I have a kind of movie obsession, I have over 200 movies and I need to get more. 	
MAT	Well if I can just recommend a film called 'Unarmed But Dangerous'. 	
LIZ	Uh-hu I knew. You know... 	
MAT	I star in the film. It's not pretty. But the makeup in it's really good. 	
LIZ	Scara, when you said that you had an obsession maybe I just worried that you were going to say Mat Fraser. 	
MAT	Oh God no. 	
LIZ	I thought the headphones wouldn't fit on.	
SCARA	Well that would sound a bit too scary.	
MAT	Too Scara scary. 	
LIZ	So if you were to give marks out of ten for your disability what would you give it? 	
SCARA	I would have to say eight and a half. 	
LIZ	Oh it's an eight and a half, why? 	
SCARA	Yeah. Because sometimes... well there was a period of time when I couldn't leave the home for at least two weeks because I got so, I got tongue tied and I couldn't talk to people at all. 	
MAT	Well that's okay because there's a lot of people that do hairdressing at home don't they? 	
SCARA	Well my mum's a hairdresser so... 	
MAT	You've already got the equipment. 	
LIZ	There you go it's in the business.	
SCARA	Yeah. 	
LIZ	Scara, you've been fantastic, thank you so much for calling in... 	
SCARA	No thank you. 	
LIZ	... and letting us put you through Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable or as you would call it – what's it called again?	
SCARA	[speaking Finnish]	
LIZ	Perfect. 	
MAT	Fantastic. 	
LIZ	We will send you a travel mug and you take care. 	
MAT	And Facebook me. 	
SCARA	Oh thank you. 	
LIZ	Thanks, Scara, take care. Bye. 	
MAT	Bye, Scara, BYE!	
SCARA	Bye. 	
MAT	And if you want to be the next contestant on Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable please email us now ouch@bbc.co.uk and put 'I've got absolutely no self worth or dignity' in the subject line and you might get an Ouch travel mug for your efforts, but it's absolutely NOT a competition and we might not give you anything at all. They are our rules. How do you like them apples? 
If you have a question of predicament that's burning a hole in your brain and you'd like us to help, then email the show now ouch@bbc.co.uk that's ouch@bbc.co.uk, if you don't you might explode – fact.
All right, who's this chap in the corner we've got a newbie in the studio, his name is Nick. Nick Rockcliffe. 	
NICK	It is. 	
MAT	Hi mate, how are you? 	
NICK	I'm very good thank you, yourself? 	
MAT	Yeah good, ta. 	
LIZ	And you are from Electro Arcade. 	
NICK	That's right yeah. 	
LIZ	You will be playing us out at the end of this show. 	
NICK	Ah very exciting. 	
LIZ	No we're very excited having you here. 	
MAT	But first we want to know some stuff about you. And first off, because we're kind of doing impairment hierarchies and is it or isn't it a disability, what's your bag?	
NICK	Crohn's disease. 	
MAT	Ooh!	
LIZ	That's a bit fancy. 	
NICK	Is it? 	
MAT	Tell us what that is. 	
NICK	Well it's an inflammatory bowel condition basically where the immune system, your own immune system, attacks you and causes inflammation generally in the sigmoid area of the bowel which is the appendix area. 	
MAT	Okay. How are we going to make that funny? 	
LIZ	Well you know what because we've been asking people that look disabled and aren't disabled and all of that, not an easy one to do. You must get a lot "You don't look disabled."	
NICK	Well it depends what time of night it is to be perfectly honest. 	
LIZ	Ooh!	
MAT	And where you are. 	
NICK	Five o'clock in the morning in Brixton you know it's 50:50. But yeah no generally no I don't look disabled. 	
LIZ	Do you get that a lot, can that work in your advantage but not that some people just don't get that you're actually ill at times.	
NICK	It can do. But yeah no it does it's very hard especially with some employers because you don't look ill, so people assume that you're not ill. But they don't really get that you've woken up this morning your stomach's swollen, you've been on the toilet since five o'clock in the morning and that sort of thing. 	
MAT	And they you've got that pressure of not oh God that's a whole other discussion I think. 	
NICK	Oh yeah, yeah. 	
MAT	But what I want to do is something really offensive that always happens to disabled people. 	
NICK	Oh fantastic. 	
MAT	Do you know Gareth Berliner?	
NICK	No. 	
MAT	It's just that he's another man with the same condition. And do people... people always do that to me, "Do you know..." and they're basically say their town's thalid. 	
NICK	I see okay. 	
LIZ	He's a stand up comic and talks about it. 	
NICK	I did actually have a look on Wikipedia for famous people with my condition and I found Ali Carter, the snooker player, and Anastasia but I didn't look beyond that. 	
LIZ	Oh wow Anastasia. 	
MAT	Anastasia? 	
NICK	Yeah, yeah. 	
LIZ	Oh look at us. 	
MAT	Hot gossip ooh!	
LIZ	Who would have thought? Okay so to get to know you even better and we're going to ask you some quick fire questions. 	
NICK	Oh gawd. 	
LIZ	Are you prepared for that? 	
NICK	Well we'll see I suppose. 	
LIZ	Okay. Are you ready? So what would you rather stare at the night sky or a country scene?	
NICK	Ooh the night sky. 	
MAT	If you could go back to school right now what would you study?	
NICK	Drama. 	
LIZ	John Peel or John Barrowman? 	
NICK	John Peel. 	
MAT	Banana or Snickers?	
NICK	Snickers. 	
LIZ	If you could create a new law what would it be? 	
NICK	Oh one where No Win No Fee solicitors exist. 	
MAT	Ooh! Twilight or Inception? 	
NICK	Neither I'm afraid. 	
MAT	I'm with you on that one neither. Yeah not interested. 	
LIZ	'70s, '70, '90s or the 21st century? 	
NICK	All the '90s. 	
MAT	Of all the songs in the whole world which would you most like to cover? 	
NICK	Dusty Springfield – Son Of A Preacher Man	
MAT	Ooh nice choice!	
LIZ	Oh Radio 2. New York or Tokyo?	
NICK	New York. 	
MAT	Guitar or keyboards?	
NICK	Guitar. 	
LIZ	And how did, I mean you talked about work a minute ago do you work now or do you put all your energies into Electro Arcade?	
NICK	Well no. At the moment I had to quit work last year because I had an operation on the Crohn's in March. I was working as a... 	
MAT	By the way listeners this isn't the quick fire quiz anymore, just so you know. 	
NICK	Yeah no I worked for a major insurer doing legal liability claims insuring all the councils, so whenever you slip over the pavement and we get the No Win No Fee solicitors on the phone wanting to claim. So I got to argue with them for a few years basically. 	
MAT	Wow. 	
LIZ	And here you are. So Electro Arcade it's you and Kevin Andrews. 	
NICK	It is. 	
MAT	We're going to hear a track from you in a second, after a few very important closing words from Elizabeth. 	
LIZ	Oh yes the production team were Damon Rose, Dan Slipper and Tony Baker. We're back in two weeks. Email us with your questions or dilemmas to ouch@bbc.co.uk and we'll try and set our very big brains on it in November. 	
MAT	And now back to Nick to introduce his own song.	
LIZ & MAT	Goodbye!	
NICK	Hi I'm Nick Rockcliffe and you're listening to Electro Arcade - White Lies. 
[Playing music]