Ouch Talk Show #59 – November 2010
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr

The Ouch Podcast is a download from the BBC. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.

LIZ	It's Talk Show 59 and so that means it's only 15 shopping days until the international day for persons with disabilities. Oh yes, what a mouthful, if 
only they could shorten to one word like Christmas, Thanksgiving or Pride maybe we'd get somewhere. 

MAT	When you're ready, Liz, sorry listeners might like to know that Rob Crossan will be joining us later to look back at the month's news. Learny band, 
The Fish Police, who are fantastic are with us, and I've got a brand new feature that I want to introduce. 

LIZ	Can't wait. 

[Jingle: From the BBC in London it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr.]

MAT	Liz, is it 'coz I is disabled? 

LIZ	What? 

MAT	Well I say that in the Ali G style. 

LIZ	Oh okay but why are you being all street on me, Mat?

MAT	Yeah, no he used to say "Is it 'coz I is black?" 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	Although he wasn't black and I am disabled. Now is it 'coz I is disabled? 

LIZ	But apart from that.

MAT	I'm drumming again at the moment as you might not know. I've been drumming again a lot. And I remember the first time I thought is it 'coz I is 
disabled I didn't get a job in a band, I did an audition as a drummer. And I drummed okay I thought. But when I left I didn't get the job but I was convinced 
it was because I was disabled. It probably actually was 'coz I was basically a rather mediocre drummer and not as good as they needed. But I was convinced, 
my first port of paranoid call was "Oh my God it must be because I'm disabled." And I just thought that's probably something that a lot of us listeners, you 
and the team may have experienced. Have you got an experience of this? 

LIZ	No as you say that I'm sort of cringing a bit because I'm thinking I just started a new office based job as well as this. And it's the first time 
I've been working in a non disability related organisation for years and years and years. And within my first week the rest of the team went to the pub. 
They're a bunch of lads and they were like, "Right, so so and so are you coming, are you coming" and nobody asked me and I'm like it's because I'm a crip, 
it's because I'm a crip. 

MAT	And it wasn't, it was probably because you were the new girl wasn't it? 

LIZ	Well you know it could have been. I mean maybe if I was younger and more conventionally attractive and de, de, de, de, da maybe then, maybe then. 

MAT	Hold on, rewind two other paranoias there. 

LIZ	No. Absolutely that's it. 

MAT	Younger and more conventionally attractive. Liz, you're you, you're wonderfully attractive...

LIZ	Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

MAT	... you're magnetic. 

LIZ	But you know what I mean? 

MAT	You wouldn't want to have Liz, Carr at the drinks? 

LIZ	Yeah but you know what I mean. I mean default position I think if you don't get something that you want, whether it's a job or asked out or whatever 
my default position is that I think ah maybe it's because I'm a crip. Maybe it's because I'm disabled. 

MAT	Forget about turn some dating. 

LIZ	Oh well that's always... 

MAT	You know what I mean? 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	That must be a terrible one. 

LIZ	I mean you've got that, then you've to whether it's age or whether it's gender or sexuality or where you're from. I mean God all these things that 
you put on it. 

MAT	And it can bring you down can't it? 

LIZ	Definitely. 

MAT	I mean I know we're meant to be all light-hearted whey-hey, and we are, okay we are light hearted about all the stuff that other think is serious. 
But actually when you get a knock back like that... I've been turned away at a club more than once. I know that somebody quite close to our hearts who works 
with us who shall remain nameless but is the producer of the show... 

LIZ	Yeah Damon yeah that's right. 

MAT	... was once turned down... wasn't allowed into a club. It was quite soon after he'd lost his sight I believe and that was like, "Oh great is that 
what life's going to be" and it put him into bed for four days. 

LIZ	Yeah no I think it does because it knocks you for six. And I think there's this balance because I think it would be ridiculous to go, "Actually it 
has nothing to do with disability." A lot of these things may have a basis in disability but what we do, I think, is we go it's all about that, the total 
reason. Or we make it about disability when it's not and I don't know how to get that balance. Do you know what I mean? 

MAT	Yeah it's difficult isn't it? 

LIZ	I don't know at all. 

MAT	And also and further to that and I don't want to get too sort of browbeaten, but is that actually a comfort zone? Can you retreat... 

LIZ	How do you mean? 

MAT	Well every time you get a knock back for something can you go back to your comfort beating zone of it's because I'm disabled, you see I knew the 
whole world was against me because I'm disabled. You see that is unjust. You see I don't actually have to try harder next time or whatever. I'm not saying, 
"Get on your bikes" because most people can't ride a bike who are disabled, let's face it. Norman Tebbit if you're still listening, the politician who 
famously said it in the '80s, the previous Tory Government. But the point I'm making is, is there an element of that? 

LIZ	Is there a safety net in going, "Oh well it's because I'm disabled I'm never going to get that job" or "I'm never going to aspire to have a partner 
like that" or whatever it is that you're after. 

MAT	Well that's a big one isn't it? It's like I'm never going... I'm not worthy because I'm disabled of that partner, of that job, of that dress, of that 
shoe. 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	Or shoes. 

LIZ	I don't think, you know, I do think that of course there's this disability angle because we're disabled people talking about this, but I think pretty 
much everybody out there has their own default position whether they go "Oh it's because I was brought up like this." "It's because I didn't go to 
university" "It's because I don't earn enough" "It's because my Mum didn't... " do you know what I mean? And I wonder and listeners do, you know, let us know 
do you think as disabled people we are more likely to go, "You know what, I didn't get that opportunity because I'm disabled." And of course we are denied 
lots of opportunities through discrimination, I'm not denying that, but do you think also we automatically go onto default and go, "Yeah well because I'm 
disabled that won't happen for me, and that doesn't happen." Do you think we do that? You know where we are, we're ouch@bbc.co.uk do let us know what you 
think about that because I'm intrigued now. 

MAT	Liz.

LIZ	What?

MAT	If life gives you lemons MAKE LEMONADE!

LIZ	Oh you see I hate that. 

MAT	Do you not like that motivational stuff? 

LIZ	No. 

MAT	Because a lot of my actor friends I moan often, "I haven't got Cracker. I was not in Spooks and it's not fair it's because I'm disabled." And they're 
like, "Mat, I'm an actor too" the able-bodied actor friend, "I'm an actor too, you've worked five times in the last two year, shut up because I've had no 
jobs in the last two years." And actually I have to admit I probably have got slightly more work because I'm disabled than I would have got if I was non 
disabled. 

LIZ	Absolutely. 

MAT	Because I'm like one of those in the mix not very famous actors that probably only gets the work when they're thinking oh we need... oh what about 
that guy with short arms you know what I mean? So I can't always complain because I actually have to say probably in terms of the acting especially that 
disability's been part of my success. 

LIZ	Isn't that flattering though when people say stuff like that? 

MAT	You can always find a negative can't you? It's a skill you've got. 

LIZ	Well you know. 

MAT	No it's good. Have there been any, you know your wedding preparations... 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	Have there been any... have you gone to you know what bride or one of those shops? Have you got any it's 'coz I'm disabled stuff going on there with 
the cake or...? 

LIZ	No the favourite one for me is that the majority of time of course they don't think it's me the bride, I mean that's it, it's never I'm never the 
bride at all. I'm either the bride's mother... 

MAT	Are you ever the bridesmaid even? 

LIZ	Not even that, I'm not even allowed there on the day do you know what I mean? So usually that and the funniest is when like you know when we were 
trying to find a venue and you'd ring up and say that wheelchair access is really important. Great yes we've got wheelchair access. You turn up and they go, 
"Oh we thought it was for your grandma." They certainly don't think. 

MAT	We've got the one wheelchair space at the back of the mausoleum that you're renting. 

LIZ	Absolutely. So yeah you know a lot of... But I think to say that this whole thing, you know, is it because I'm disabled I think something that has 
sort of helped me balance it for me a little bit is that my partner isn't a disabled person and they'll often kick it out of me, not literally don't worry 
listeners, and go, "You know actually it's not all about disability, get over yourself" and that's quite healthy. 

MAT	And further to that, my partner my intended, my fiancé Julie, is an American. 

LIZ	Ah you see. 

MAT	Where they don't do self deprecation. Like after shows when people go, "You did well" and I go, "Actually it wasn't very good tonight." She pulls me 
to one side and says, "No, say thank you and smile."  

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	And she's like, "No it's not because you're disabled, get a grip and even if it is, so what, move on." And I'm like, "Easy for you."

LIZ	This is useful, Mat, this is useful because I was thinking so how do we get over that always thinking that it's us and is it because we're disabled, 
so how do you get over that. So one way is accept something and go, "Actually no I was good at that" you know take that on the chin. So again, listeners, if 
you've got any tips and advice for us and for each other on how to always stop doing that negative,"Oh well because I'm disabled I won't get the job and I 
won't de, da..." how do you kick yourself out of it, how do you get out of that kind of mental funk, for want of a better word. 

MAT	And when have you been at your most confident and egotistical on the other side of the coin? 

LIZ	Well that's true. 

MAT	How can crips get that confident, isn't it hard? 

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	Does it take more metal?

LIZ	And maybe it's just a British thing because when you do and you get that confidence it's almost like, "Oh they're a bit cocky aren't they?" 

MAT	If you have a question to ask us or were patronised half to death yesterday and need to tell someone about it, well we're here, don't be scared 
little one. Email ouch@bbc.co.uk and if we include your contribution in the next show you'll get some lovely Ouch merchandise. Ouch@bbc.co.uk. And once again 
we have the lovely Rob Crossan with us to tell us a bit about the news recently. You're looking different, Rob, what is it? 

ROB	It's the distressed farmer look. 

MAT	I know he's got a lovely cardigan, brown cardigan...

LIZ	It's lovely.

MAT	... and a kind of a flat cap. 

LIZ	And a checked shirt. 

ROB	So yeah it's kind of like the new breed of 21st Century farmers who have never been near a farm and are scared of manure that's the look I'm going 
for. 

MAT	Nice. 

LIZ	Next week you'll be bringing in a pitch fork. I look forward to that. 

ROB	And a live lamb. 

LIZ	Rob, have you got any moments right when you think is this happening to me because I'm disabled?

ROB	Yeah but there's never been any... there was never any real ambiguity to it to me when I was at school in PE I was always picked last for football. 
But of course yes exactly it is because I is disabled, there's absolutely no reason why it would be anything else. 

MAT	But what about journalistic knockbacks? 

ROB	Yeah, no I have had a few from the most surprising of places. The right wing newspapers have always been absolutely lovely, but it's a certain left 
wing one that have actually given me the worst case of disability discrimination I've ever come across, which was extraordinary. But it's worked more to my 
advantage than it has against me? 

LIZ	Have they, Rob, or you're just assuming that they have because you're disabled?

ROB	Oh no, no they did. No they absolutely did. 

LIZ	This is explicit, okay. 

ROB	Well I got a place on a traineeship years ago when I first moved to London with Channel 4, and I think there were about 550 people for six places, 
and I'm sure that I would have got quite far down the application route anyway I think because I was relatively sure of myself. But I think that the albinism 
element may well have twisted it my way because I did cynically used it to my advantage. I asked lots of questions about, "Well as an equal opportunities 
employer what's your attitude towards people with albinism?" I deliberately asked those questions in the interview. And I noticed the six of us, it was like 
the United Colours of Benetton, the six of us... there was one gay, there was one black, there was one Asian, there was one with dyslexia, there was me the 
albino and there was one normal, a normal. So yeah I just thought it was a little bit too coincidental. But anyway it worked I got on the traineeship. 

LIZ	You got there. 

ROB	Yeah. 

LIZ	So there's a time to use it. 

ROB	Use it to your advantage is my advice. 

LIZ	I like that, I like that bit of advice yes. 

MAT	We've had an email from a guy called Hamilton because last time you were on the show, Rob, you told us about someone who was saddened that you were 
unable to eat meat on account of being an albino. Liz, what was the email? 

LIZ	Well he's got this explanation he says "An alternative might be that to the uninformed American ear the British pronunciation albeano, US users say 
albino may have confused them okay? Are you going with this logic, Rob, right? When you heard that you were an Albeano, see yeah, they may have naively 
assumed that he was no meato possibly. 

ROB	But bean and meat don't sound anything alike, I'm sorry to point... 

LIZ	Well I think... 

MAT	Hamilton, it's because you're disabled that you've written such a bad email. 

ROB	Yeah. 

LIZ	And it is. 

ROB	So, Hamilton, if you're considering a job as a scriptwriter on Saturday Night Live then I wouldn't send them this as an example of your material, 
come up with something better. 

MAT	We're teasing you, Hamilton. 

ROB	It took me ages to understand that bean and meat they're both four letters long, they've both got consonants at either end but they don't rhyme. 

LIZ	Apart from that no. 

MAT	Pedantic but true. 

ROB	I'm so sorry. 

MAT	Hamilton, however, does go on to say love the Ouch podcast, miss it only under duress and with consternation. So thanks very much for that, Hamilton, 
nice to have your support. Rob, you are here actually to facilitate the news stories. 

ROB	Facilitate? 

LIZ	Facilitate? 

MAT	Well it was the word consternation it's got me all... 

ROB	You've suddenly swallowed a Thesaurus. 

MAT	I have and that's not easy to say. 

LIZ	First story, "Too disabled to fly." 

ROB	Yeah this is a cracker. It's a long running subject.

LIZ	Of course. 

ROB	Which we've been covering this one for years but it just keeps on going. This is a fella called Johnnie Tuitel who's a motivational speaker who has 
Cerebral Palsy in the US. And he's a frequent flyer, half a million miles he claims he's flown all around the world, mostly around the States doing his 
motivational speaker talks.

LIZ	From being inspirational no doubt. 

ROB	Yeah. And he got thrown off, yeah he got thrown off a US airways flight from Palm Beach to Kansas a couple of weeks ago because the US airways staff 
decided that he was just that little bit too disabled to fly. 

MAT	Wow!

LIZ	What did they mean by that? 

ROB	Well it's safety considerations. And Johnnie Tuitel said the whole argument happened in front of all the other passengers just as they were about to 
take off. And yes, so apparently they said, "You are disabled but you're maybe just a little bit too disabled" and I think this was generally the gist of it. 
And obviously Mr Tuitel is not very happy about this at all, and has given countless press interviews about the whole thing and US Airways have said yes 
maybe we could have handled this better and they've invited Johnnie to actually go and give some talks for their staff. So he's actually made some money out 
of it. 

LIZ	Really? 

ROB	He's got some work. Can't argue with that. 

MAT	It's going to be hard for him not to get a little angry at those talks I think. 

LIZ	I reckon. 

MAT	"And it's because of you!"

ROB	And he also says, "I don't complain about my disability I'm a guy who wants to go to work to take care of his children." [singing] He's a complicated 
man, only his woman understands. 

MAT	That's so motivational though. 

LIZ	I want to go. I've never actually been to anything like that before. 

MAT	Well don't the always end, "And if I can do it, you can do it." 

LIZ	Really? 

MAT	That's how a motivational speech has to end apparently. 

LIZ	Does everyone stand up at the end and cheer in the whole thing?

ROB	In America I'm sure they would, absolutely. 

LIZ	I'd quite like to experience that in a way. 

ROB	"There are no barriers people, yes we can." 

MAT	Have you got another story for us, Rob? 

ROB	Yes. In a similar vein actually it's a little bit closer to home, this is in Belfast. Basically the world's rudest bouncer. This is a club, we'll try 
and put this up on the website, you can see the logo, or should I say the signage to the club it doesn't look like the most salubrious. 

LIZ	Looks classic doesn't it? Classic. 

ROB	The club's called 'Rain' it rhymes with the places I used to go in the early '90s that were always called 'Rosie's' or 'Annabel's' or called 
'Scamps'. 

MAT	But in Belfast it's called 'Rain' okay fair enough. 

ROB	Rain yeah it doesn't lift the spirits does it? Anyway, Kieran McGrogan, wheelchair user, turned up to this club a couple of weeks ago. 

LIZ	No age there, wheelchair user... 

ROB	Do you want the age?

LIZ	... 31. 

ROB	Doesn't say his age, does it matter? 

LIZ	No. 

ROB	He looks a quite a young lad. 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	Does he look over 18? 

ROB	No he doesn't actually. 

MAT	Hold on! It's not because he was disabled... 

LIZ	He's because he's five. 

ROB	Is it 'coz I is illegal? I think it was because he had a wheelchair and the bouncer decided that he basically couldn't be arsed to take Kieran up the 
stairs. 

MAT	And what proof have we of this? 

ROB	Well because Kieran said that the bouncer told him, "Do you think I've got anything better to do than lug your wheelchair up a flight of stairs?" He 
was then told, "It's not your night." And so yeah wasn't allowed in even though apparently a load of really, really inebriated people came in even though 
Kieran, sober as a judge, wasn't allowed in.  

LIZ	Wasn't allowed in. 

ROB	Because the bouncer couldn't be arsed to lug his wheelchair up the stairs. Kieran says he's found up to try and find out what's happened, nightclub 
haven't responded at all so he's gone to the papers. But it makes me... 

MAT	Quite right too. 

ROB	... what's the rudest thing anyone has ever said to you in a public place regarding your disability? 

MAT	I've got one. 

ROB	Go on. 

MAT	It was in a disco, it was in Jersey. 

ROB	Jersey. 

MAT	And it was 1979. And a girl came up to me and said, "Sorry, I bet you're really sweet and everything, but looking at your arms makes me feel sick" 
and then just walked off. 

LIZ	No way!

MAT	Yeah. She said that. 

ROB	Did you follow her flipping your arms walking around going...

MAT	Going whoo-oo, whoo-oo. No I didn't, I rather went back into my shell. I actually went over to the DJ and asked him to put on When the Kids are 
United by Sham 69 and solo pogo'd in the disco on my own as a response and was promptly banned from the venue. 

ROB	That makes me want to cry. Liz?

MAT	Unfortunately true. 

LIZ	Very cringe worthy I don't know if it's the worst one, but I was in a VIP area at an event and the security came – it's security again – shouted 
across the room, "We've got a disabled here!" It was just like... and of course everyone looked and you're like... 

ROB	Did you wave? 

LIZ	You're quite dressed up and it was quite a nice event and it's like "Oh" it just brings you right down to... 

ROB	Yeah that's the end of the night. 

LIZ	... you are nothing kind of thing. Absolutely. 

MAT	To be fair to our security forces of the land is it because their induction to disability was a little... 

ROB	Perhaps a little less...

MAT	... a little.....

ROB	... less than thorough. Yeah. 

MAT	They've been furnished with only some of the information. 

ROB	"It's not your night, Mat, it's not your night."

LIZ	I was thinking that maybe looking at the guy I'm thinking maybe they didn't let him in because he does look very young and he is wearing a track 
suit. I'm just saying I'm not being a fascist here again – a fashion fascist. 

ROB	You can wear a tracksuit to a disco can't you? 

LIZ	Can you - I don't know. 

MAT	Even in Belfast apparently it allowed. 

LIZ	Really? 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	I thought places had dress codes and horrible things like that. 

MAT	Yeah but the point being that he's gone on about the wheelchair up and down the stairs hasn't he? 

ROB	The bloke could have just said to him, "I'm not letting you in, mate, because you look about 12 and you've got a tracksuit on." 

LIZ	Yeah that's true. 

MAT	The thing is we were talking about is it 'coz I is disabled. 

LIZ	Yeah well that's what I was... 

MAT	I was actually turned away several times from a club and the guy looks at me, baulks and then looks for other reasons and goes, "It's, um, your 
shoes, your shoes you've got the wrong shoes on."

LIZ	I've got a piece of news, I've got a news bit. 

ROB	Okay. 

LIZ	No I have, a proper bit. So I was reading that National Magazine Company's Top 100 list of most influential women in the UK, okay, so number one if 
JK Rowling yeah? Number two Beckham. The Queen is number three. 

ROB	She'll be disappointed with that. 

LIZ	Number ten, number ten is Tanni Grey Thompson. 

MAT	Whoa, we've made it, we've made it. 

LIZ	We have a disabled woman, Baroness Thompson, is in the top ten. I just thought... I just wanted to share that because I just thought it was 
phenomenal to just be reading a magazine and find out that a disabled person had made it into there. So her of course of all the Paralympian fame, we will be 
seeing a lot of her in 2012 no doubt. 

ROB	Absolutely. I'm genuinely quite impressed with that. 

LIZ	No isn’t it incredible to have a crip in the Top Ten do you know what I mean? So I was very... 

MAT	Guys!

LIZ	Yeah. 

MAT	I want to introduce my new feature. 

LIZ	Oh. 

MAT	That's right, I've been allowed, listeners, to do a feature, and I've got a new one. And basically I will now introduce every programme an impairment 
and look at the bright side of it okay? 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	So let's call it the bright side of disability. 

LIZ	Wow I see what you've done there. 

MAT	And this podcast's impairment is amputee okay. Now I've been thinking it's probably better to have a leg missing than an arm for this one, so we'll 
just ignore all the people with arm amputations. 

LIZ	Okay. 

MAT	But here's the thing. Obviously the number one thing that we all think is that you only need one shoe, it's cheaper. But apparently they make you buy 
both of them a lot of the time in shops. 

ROB	Just in case the other leg grows back you might need it one day. 

MAT	Well maybe because they just can't be arsed to put it back in the box and wait for the opposite amputee to come in. 

ROB	To come in. 

MAT	But the thing is... 

ROB	With the same shoe size. 

MAT	... you can actually collect all the shoes that you never use and make them into kind of a nice wall decoration, so it's not all bad, or pickle them 
in formaldehyde if you like modern art. 

ROB	Create an little installation for the Turbine Hall at the Tate Modern. 

MAT	Other benefits include the travel pass obviously, the blue badge, cheaper theatre tickets... 

LIZ	Yeah but you could say that for anyone. 

MAT	... and the Odeon pass. Sshh, Liz, this is a new feature, I'm warming into it. 

ROB	Give it a chance. 

MAT	Okay. And obviously if you make clothes you're literally laughing all the way to the trouser bank. What else can you think of for a leg amputee 
that's positive? [Whistling noise and chiming noise]

LIZ	Anyway it's good to see you, Rob. 

ROB	Did you mention... 

MAT	We'll be back with that feature next week. 

ROB	Can I just ask what the connection is between an Odeon pass and being an amputee? It's a bit tenuous that. 

MAT	I went to the Odeon the other day, and it was thirty quid a ticket in Leicester Square and I was like, "Thirty quid a ticket can't I pull a 
disability thing or something?" And he went "Well have you got an Odeon pass?" And I went, "What's one of them?" And he told me all about the Odeon pass you 
have to apply for, and then you get your carer comes in free. Now if you were to hop up, obviously leave the prosthetic leg... Oh the other thing I forgot to 
tell you that's good about being a leg amputee is you can wear a prosthetic and militant disabled people aren't angry at you for just being cosmetic, because 
you need it to balance. 

ROB	You could also mention a friend of mine only has one leg and he can park his car literally in the middle of Leicester Square. There's nowhere he 
can't park so it would seem. He drives everywhere to come and meet me and he always seems to find somewhere even in Soho, which I think is quite 
((0:21:58.8?)) 

LIZ	Well, Mat, I can't wait for... 

MAT	It's impressive. 

LIZ	... I can't wait for next show's feature. 

MAT	Our next show look out for Bipolar disorder – is it all bad? I don't know what to say now.

LIZ	No neither do we. 

ROB	He got his laptop out and everything. 

LIZ	I know and what are you thinking this was incredible. 
[Jingle: It's great working with Mat and Liz, they can say horrible things about disability and it's okay because they're disabled. People think they're 
being ironic but actually this show is just one big hate crime – hilarious if you think about it. 

MAT	We have got the most exciting band in disability arts, in fact the whole world in the studio right now, we've got The Fish Police here. 

LIZ	The Fish Police. And that is Matt, hello Matt.

MAT	Hello. 

LIZ	Hello. We've got Dean.

DEAN	Dean Power. 

LIZ	Dean Power – nice. And Charles. 

CHARLES	Hi folks, hello. 

LIZ	Thank you for joining us. 

MAT	Right, I'm going to have to tell the listeners straight... 

LIZ	Go on, go for it. 

MAT	I recently did a gig at The Beautiful Octopus club which is run by the Classic Heart & Soul which Fish Police came out of and they were the headline 
band. I was blown away. Apart from anything else you know your music's fantastic it's like coming out of an R&B hip-hop kind of funk kind of place, but you 
look so sharp. You've all got the suits it was like an episode of Mad Men out there without the cigarettes. I mean unbelievable right, just totally thing. 
Tell us about the band Fish Police. 

DEAN	Well it's a group with three people and two of them play instruments like the bass guitar and electric guitar and one person is the front person. 

MAT	And that's you?

DEAN	Me yeah. 

LIZ	And you're the front person. 

DEAN	Yes. 

LIZ	You're the dapper one at the front in the suit. 

DEAN	Yes. 

LIZ	Okay. And how long have you been going? I saw you last September and I was at a festival and you guys were the biggest buzz. There was this, 
"Everyone's got to see Fish Police" I was like "What, what, what?" And I turned up and it was like, "Oh my God" because all of the visuals that you've got as 
well as music, you had a big screen and these great little videos as well so how did you develop all this where? 

MAT	Tell us about that, Mat? Where do you get the style from, Mat? Where does that come from? You play guitar right? 

MAT	Yeah. 

MAT	And dance a lot. 

MAT	Yeah. 

MAT	Really well I might add. Where does that style come from? 

MAT	It's stage. 

MAT	So you mean when you get on the stage you're just filled with it? 

MAT	Yeah. 

LIZ	So you're not always like that? You're not like that at home every day, it's kind of a thing when you get on stage you really come out and that's it, 
you are Fish Police? 

MAT	Hm-mm. 

LIZ	That's amazing yeah. 

CHARLES	We kind of got the idea for Fish Police really came from Dean. We kind of came from a Heart & Soul workshop called the Heart & Soul Youth Group which 
we were doing about four/five years ago. So I've known Mat and Dean for almost five or six years now, seven years. And we wanted to try and take it a step 
further and so we just made this band, Fish Police, up. And Dean came up with the name and we just started writing songs about Dean's favourites things. 

LIZ	Like?

MAT	I think that's one of the things that I love is that you talk about your daily life and stuff that goes on in your life. I mean what sort of things 
do you sing about so the listeners can get an idea. Tell us some of the things you talk about in your songs? 

DEAN	Talking about Japanese girls. 

MAT	Oh yeah. 

LIZ	And you're going to be talking about that and we're going to hear that song, that track at the end yeah. 

DEAN	Yes that's right yeah. 

LIZ	You talk a lot about chicken. 

DEAN	Chicken yeah. 

LIZ	You're a bit obsessed with chicken. 

DEAN	Yes I am. 

LIZ	Love it. Fried chicken any particular type? 

DEAN	BBQ chicken. 

LIZ	Okay yes. 

CHARLES	I think Dean has a favourite chicken, different type of chicken every day literally. Today it's BBQ. Yesterday I think it was fried wasn't it? 

DEAN	Yeah fried. 

LIZ	And what are some of your other tracks called? 

DEAN	Like Scissors. 

LIZ	Like Scissors – nice one. 

CHARLES	What's that about? 

DEAN	It's a Japanese TV programme 

MAT	Right you're all down with the Japanese stuff at the moment. 

DEAN	Yes. 

MAT	That's uncanny. 

LIZ	It is, we've just had on our Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable thing last month we had a Japanese person, there's all this theme going on, it's all 
exciting stuff. So we have some questions for you guys, are you ready okay? 

CHARLES	I think we are. 

MAT	We're going to... 

LIZ	They're quick fire.

MAT	Are we going to quick fire them at individuals, Liz, shall we? 

LIZ	I think so. Are you ready, Mat? 

MAT	Yeah I'm ready yeah. 

LIZ	Yeah we'll get to you, is that okay? So we're going to start with you Charles, okay? Describe your music in one word? 

CHARLES	Tremendous!

MAT	Right, Dean – Sunday roast or pizza?

DEAN	Pizza. 

LIZ	Mat, your favourite karaoke song? 

MAT	Chicken.

LIZ	Yes.

DEAN	Chicken!

MAT	Charles, favourite song on your iPod today?

CHARLES	Night Fly by Donald Fagen.

LIZ	Dean, Wallis & Grommet or The Muppets? 

DEAN	The Muppets. 

LIZ	Oh yes rule. 

MAT	Mat, if there was a guest artist you could invite to sing with The Fish Police who would be your favourite? 

MAT	Chicken Nugget to me. Chicken Nuggets!

CHARLES	No actually I think it would be Lady GaGa he's got a thing about her at the moment. 

LIZ	Oh really? 

CHARLES	I think so yeah. 

LIZ	Is that because of her meat dress? Or if she wore a chicken dress maybe that would be okay. Charles, New York or Tokyo?

CHARLES	Tokyo I think. 

DEAN	Yes Tokyo. 

MAT	Dean, Halle Berry or Beyoncé? 

DEAN	Beyoncé.

MAT	Fair enough. 

LIZ	Mat, poetry or comic books? 

MAT	Usher - that's the crazy world of Dean. 

MAT	Right, Charles, Facebook or YouTube?

CHARLES	Neither. 

LIZ	Ooh controversial. 

CHARLES	Although I am on Facebook. 

MAT	That's a necessary evil is it? 

CHARLES	Yeah I suppose. 

MAT	Fair enough. 

DEAN	That's Facebook. 

LIZ	And Dean, finally, your band is called Fish Police why would fish need a police force? 

DEAN	Well because I see a lot of fish becoming as police officers. 

LIZ	Really?

DEAN	Yes. 

MAT	Oh right so is that where the name comes from then? You see fish as police? 

DEAN	Yes. 

LIZ	Wow what a freaky future we've got. 

MAT	Wow imagine that.

LIZ	I'm quite excited. 

MAT	You're nicked. 

LIZ	I'm trying to think of fish based police bands but I can't think of any. 

CHARLES	Maybe the frog doctors but that's not the frog doctors... 

LIZ	It's not the same it it? 

CHARLES	It's not quite the same. 

LIZ	Not quite the same. So how can people find out more about you? 

CHARLES	You can go on line and our address... our website would be thefishpolice.com. We've also got an EP out. 

MAT	And can we download the EP on iTunes? 

CHARLES	You can download the EP on iTunes. Our EP is called The Fish Police EP. 

MAT	Now we're going to get you to introduce your song in a second, so stand by, Dean, until I point to you okay? 

LIZ	So we're going to be back in about two weeks as things start to get Christmassy. Yes, well today's show was produced by Damon Rose, Emma Tracey, Dan 
Slipper and Vicky Oswald. 

MAT	Goodbye everyone. Cue – Fish Police – introduce Dean? 

DEAN	Yeah. This song is about a Japanese girl who's always falling asleep in the classroom. 

[Playing music]