Ouch Podcast #62 – January 2011
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr

The Ouch Podcast is a download from the BBC. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.

[Jingle 
O U C H spells Ouch]

LIZ	Hello and welcome. It's the new year, we're all feeling unhealthy after Christmas and so later we're asking what can disabled people do to keep fit - how, where and should we bother. Two disabled fitness experts will be here to tell us. 	
MAT	And we have our clever Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable quiz plus plenty of disability chat that you won't hear anywhere else. 
[Jingle: From the BBC in London it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr]
Liz?	
LIZ	Yeah.	
MAT	I've got to tell you a story. 	
LIZ	Okay, go for it. 	
MAT	Okay so I was having pizza one time in a famous pizza establishment in Notting Hill Gate in London with a date. It was kind of a first date so there was a degree of nerves around the whole eating, disability... 	
LIZ	That awkwardness. 	
MAT	... you know what it's like. 	
LIZ	Yeah. 	
MAT	Chose pizza which perhaps in retrospect was ill advised. Anywhere here's the story. 	
LIZ	Was the restaurant busy?	
MAT	Yes. 	
LIZ	I just want to sort out the scene. 	
MAT	Saturday evening 8:30pm I've booked a table for two; people look up "Ah look he's with a date" the whole thing. So anyway my pizza arrives chopped up into little squares. It was the funghi, the mushroom pizza, and...  	
LIZ	Thank you for clarifying. 	
mat	... although admittedly a traditional Italian thin crust I think I could have coped. However... 	
LIZ	So how did you? 	
mat	Well this is the point of the story really, Liz, I didn't cope very well. My nerves obviously around the date and, "Oh God" and I basically dressed him down, the poor man, the poor not very good speaking English foreign gentleman down, who probably thought, look at the poor cripple guy I'll chop his food up for him. 	
LIZ	I'll be helpful. 	
MAT	You know you can't blame him, I'll do it for you now. [shouting] "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING? NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHOP UP MY FOOD!" As you can imagine...	
LIZ	Okay. 	
MAT	... there was a degree of shock and silence. 	
LIZ	Was he crying by now? 	
MAT	No everybody - him, me, the woman, everybody else in the restaurant looked very awkward and then there was that hiatus, that sort of three or four [whistling noise] second moment and then cutlery started to jangle again and life just cut back. It finished at our table where she was like, "So, what have you been doing?" So I just thought... And it wasn't that long ago...	
LIZ	You're not with her anymore though? 	
MAT	No. And no I never did, by the way. 	
liz	No, okay	
MAT	But the point is I'm 48 now and there is still times when I get it wrong. But you would have thought I'd learned to cope with everything. 	
LIZ	So you would eat... well I guess this wasn't that long ago you'd still deal with that in the same way. 	
MAT	Well no I like to think I'd say, "Sorry, mate, can I have a word? Whilst I fully appreciate the fact that you've probably tried to help, you've probably done a disability awareness course and you think it's helpful, it's probably more prudent to ask if Sir would like his pizza cut up for him, and that way nobody gets embarrassed and we all get what we want." 	
LIZ	You see it's interesting isn't it, you're 48 I'm 38, it doesn't matter how many of years' experience you've got of being a crip do you get any better at dealing with these disability moments as you get older, do we learn? And I don't know, I've been thinking about this a lot and I don't know that I have learnt, I don't know that I've got a kind of a survival kit to offer anyone, even myself. 	
MAT	You've probably got stock phrases though haven't you like that stuff I get a lot of like, "Would you like me to get that for you?" top shelf stuff. But you must have your stuff. The stuff that happens on a weekly basis we have got stock phrases for normally haven't we? 	
LIZ	I think I just... do you know what I think I'm too nice. I know that might sound bizarre because I'm quite chippy on here, and assertive and all that but I think I get a lot of stuff by just being quite nice or being quite sarcastic, it's the two which can be quite aggressive.	
MAT	As opposed to bullish and aggressive. Is this just a man/woman thing then?	
LIZ	Well I don't think I've ever shouted at anyone like that in any aspect of my life. So maybe I should because I'm the one with ulcers aren't I?	
MAT	No I don't think it helps. I mean it makes you feel good for about a second and then awful for about a year. 	
LIZ	But I still don't know what to do when somebody, you know, I go to an accessible toilet and somebody comes out and they clearly don't need it, I mean they really clearly don't need it, and I just sit there and I might glare. That's really passive aggressive, why don't I just go, "Excuse me you've got another eight down there, I've been waiting, this is the only one for me." It's absolutely fine to say that but I don't. But on the flip side of that I was asking my mate of mine this, so how do we get the things that we need as disabled people and do you go in and do you go, "Well I've got a right to this" and she was saying most of the time we go in and we're quite charming and quite nice about it and it's only then if we don't get it that then you bring in... 	
mat	Absolutely I corroborate that.	
LIZ	Is that what you do?	
MAT	Yeah we have to because charming and polite usually scores the deal. And we've learnt you know we don't want to spend all of our time not getting what we want. I've got a friend called Theresa Deggenham	
LIZ	Oh yes. 	
MAT	You know Theresa. 	
LIZ	I do. 	
MAT	She has no arms, ladies and gentleman, and is an incredibly important Human Rights lawyer. 	
LIZ	Yeah amazing. 	
MAT	We love her. Anyway when people at the supermarket try and pack her shopping for her she gets incredibly annoyed if they do it wrong. 	
LIZ	Okay. 	
MAT	If they put like the courgettes at the bottom, which we all know is a disaster waiting to happen. 	
LIZ	Never put your courgettes at the bottom. 	
MAT	No. So what happens with her they'll see her no arms, make an assumption that she wants it packed for her, won't even ask her... 	
LIZ	Right. 	
MAT	... and then they start putting the courgettes at the bottom. So her technique is to shout, "Thief! Thief!"	
LIZ	Why thief? 	
MAT	And everyone stops because you know thief and everyone stops and she goes, "You've stolen my shopping from me. You've stolen it" and that's her way of coping. I don't know whether she's popular in that supermarket or not. 	
LIZ	You see I love that. I'd love to be that ballsy I would. And you think well why not because what's going affect things if I don't act like that, it's not going to do anything. 	
MAT	I always try and do like a cheeky chappy thing. So often when I'm fiddling for the 21 pence, I bought chocolate, "That's 21 pence please" fiddling for it, they perceive that as chap having difficulties and they say something supportive like, "Oh aren't you clever with your hands" which I find incredibly condescending and I like to do a put down by saying, "Well that's not what my girlfriend tells me." Only because not I'm trying to be smutty, slutty or salacious in any way, it's just that I want to slap them into consciousness. You're talking to a human here I'm not a piece of wood. 	
LIZ	But are you also then just slipping under the net there going not only can I deal with this, I'm an adult and I'm quick, but also I just want you to know I do have sex. Are you saying that? I do get it about a bit. 	
MAT	I'm, by the way, fully sexually active in case you're... 	
LIZ	Do you feel the need to keep asserting that, Mat, as you do on most podcasts? 	
MAT	No. 	
LIZ	Okay. 	
MAT	I had the other response too which is, "I'll beat you up." No I'm just saying... you're saying that men have the sexual or the violent response are you, and that women use communication. I put it to you... 	
LIZ	We hug that's what we do. 	
MAT	This is a cliché. 	
LIZ	I was at a gig recently at the O2 so big, big stadium. 	
mat	Oh the huge arena that used to be The Dome in London. 	
liz	And there was loads of people queuing up to use the lifts, the majority looked like they didn't need to use the lift, they had VIP passes and they just didn't look crippy even if it was hidden. There was loads of them and then there was a few of us. So we get in and the lift still has a lot of space. So there's me and a couple of other people and there's a wheelie and a woman who's on crutches. This woman on crutches as the other people, the nons start to get in, she's like, "No we need room to turn around, you can't come in. Close the button, close the button." And she's very clear, very assertive. Absolute rubbish logic in a way but she wasn't having any of it and I thought I like that, I really like that, I aspire to be like that. 	
MAT	But I'm, having an evil sense of humour tickled by the ones when it went wrong. So, listeners, if you do have any comedic examples of when your attempt at assertion went horribly wrong please do let us know about them, because I can think of so many in my life - so many. 	
LIZ	But I saw this recently and it brought it back because they've been around a long time those stickers, you know if you don't want to have to say something, if somebody's in the toilet or somebody bugs you or says something you don't like or puts you down or whatever, there is the classic of if somebody parks in a disabled parking space and you don't think they should be there that you know that you can get stickers. You can get stickers that you put on the person's car... 	
MAT	Oh yeah. 	
LIZ	... that usually reads something like 'You've taken my parking space, would you like my disability as well?'	
MAT	I've seen that in America. Yeah cringe worthy. Here's the comedy point - in a cheese shop in New York recently owned by Chinese people, East Village Cheese, very good shop - Chinese guy as you know fairly diminutive compared to my six foot status, goes - I won't do the accent - he goes, "Can you help me please reach" I looked at him, he looked at me I went, "No" and then we both laughed. He went, "I sorry didn't know" like this. And I said, "I know what are the odds of all the people to ask it was me." 	
LIZ	Beautiful. 	
MAT	We laughed. 	
LIZ	Beautiful moment. 
[Jingle: Ow you vacation!]	
MAT	[crying and singing] If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. [clapping] If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. 	
liz	Mat's having a bad day. Sometimes he really lets his disability get him down. But I know how to make him feel better. Hey, Mat... 	
MAT	Yes. 	
LIZ	... see your ability not your disability. 	
MAT	What? Oh I see you're trying to use wordplay. 	
LIZ	The Ouch Talk Show is dispatched twice a month from BBC.co.uk/ouch it's not distasteful and it isn't disastrous. 	
MAT	Why are you doing this to me, Liz? [This repeats 3 more times which I'm guessing is a mistake from minute 10:30 - 12:52]	
LIZ	Go on, Mat, go on you can do it. 	
MAT	One, two. 	
LIZ	Another one, give me another three. Come on. 	
MAT	I can't do the three, I'm knackered, Liz. 	
LIZ	You can do it. 	
MAT	It's just after Christmas. It is, listeners, oh god time to talk about health and fitness now. It's the beginning of the new year and we're here to help you think about your body and perhaps assist you with making some new year's resolutions. 	
LIZ	Are you a little puffed there, a little puffed? 	
mat	Just a bit. Well it's been a couple of months. 	
LIZ	In the studio we've got Mike Hanney, fitness motivator at Henbury Gym in Bristol, wheelchair user himself, hello Mike. 	
mIke	Hello. 	
LIZ	Hello, good to see you. And James O'Driscoll, personal trainer at Virgin Active, Croydon, blind but more importantly you were December's man of the month in Men's Health magazine. 	
JAMES	Yes I was, hello. 	
LIZ	Yes hello. Good to have you here. 	
MAT	Hi guys. 	
LIZ	Now look, we've got you here obviously we both need a bit of help though Mat's much fitter than me. I'm not a fitness freak at all, okay, very scathing I'm just going to lay that on the cards now, okay. So help me out - why should disabled people bother exercising? 	
mike	For the same reason as anybody should be exercising. The more we actually move, the more active we are, the easier it is for us to actually get about in our daily lives. And, obviously, from a disability point of view we never know when something's going to happen, it tends to be a little bit more kind of upscale than with like an able bodied person when it does go wrong, and then the rehab is much easier the fitter we are. 	
LIZ	So it has got a purpose it's not just... so I'm thinking you know for me I'm thinking oh is it going to be too much like physio, is it too much like that for us? 	
MIKE	No it's fun physio. 	
james	Yeah you can make it more fun. You can work with friends as well so that's another aspect of it. You can take it out of the medical side of it and make it more fun. 	
LIZ	Okay. So make it about fitness, make it about fun. 	
MAT	I'm a fitness fanatic martial artist all my life, go to the gym, do martial arts, for me it's very much part of my being and I'm only really happy when I'm regularly training and stuff like that. However, working with Liz as I have done for many years now and knowing lots of other people of her sort, no not like that I mean a wheelchair user, there are a lot of disabled people who totally shun it who basically think we'll that's not actually... I can't do it, it's no use to me, I'm on a hiding to nothing and it actually feels like crappy physio that I don’t enjoy. What do you say to those people who like, okay we've got a friend, we won't mention their name... 	
LIZ	She can blink. 	
MAT	She can blink and move her little finger how can she then... I'm just going extreme putting you on the spot, Mike?	
LIZ	She rolls up to you. 	
MIKE	Okay. 	
MAT	Blinks which is her way of saying, "I'd like to be...  	
LIZ	She talks, I mean God she talks.	
MAT	... oh wow. 	
MIKE	Yeah but there's still things, there's still small kit that could actually be used to help her increase perhaps the strength in that finger, or gain a little bit of movement, even if it's only actually squeezing a stress ball or using a dynoband, a rubber band, you know the stretchy rubber bands that you get in a gym. It's still something it's still actually going to be better than doing nothing. 	
MAT	Right. 	
JAMES	Also, with exercise it's not just about moving your body, it's how you feel about yourself as well and the connection you have with your mind about what you do. For a start if your friend come in and said, "I want to exercise, I want to feel better" straightaway she's on a plus side because she wants to do something. 	
mat	Because it's a self motivating tool is that what you're saying, in itself? 	
mike	It's self esteem, it's confidence it's every part of your life you're going to be changed by it.	
LIZ	Are you finding that more disabled people are coming to the gym, are using your services?	
MAT	Because they're not traditionally that accessible are they in the way they promote themselves? 	
MIKE	That's where the IFI have come in and actually helped to improve... 	
MAT	Sorry what's the IFI, Mike? 	
MIKE	The Inclusive Fitness Initiative because they've now looked at gym equipment and things like this and actually tried to make it so it's much more user friendly for people with disabilities. I mean just simple things like making the changing... when you're changing weight stacks and things like this, the actual hand hold's much, much bigger and in a lot of cases can be used one handed. 	
MAT	I mean what do you do with a new disabled client?	
LIZ	If I turned... if I go, "Okay, we've had this discussion, I know I'm cynical but look I've got nothing to lose let's give it a go." What would you do when I arrive? How would you help me through that? 	
MIKE	Obviously the first thing I'm going to do is welcome you to the gym and have a talk to you, find out what you're actually aiming to get out of coming to the gym. 	
LIZ	What I want from it. 	
MIKE	What brought you there, what're you aiming for? 	
LIZ	And I'd say you made me on the podcast that's why I'm coming. 	
MIKE	Oh right! 	
LIZ	No but you... 	
Mike	Once you've got that information you hopefully then, by chatting to that person, are going to make some kind of connection with them. 	
MAT	So look guys, is it just beautiful people that go to gyms? Won't disabled people feel totally out of place? 	
mike	No.	
JAMES	Er no. One of my clients is blind. He comes in, he puts his guide dog with my guide dog and we go round together. It's all like blind leading the blind. I go, "Does that hurt?" "Yeah", "Well don't do it." 	
MAT	Now that's my kind of fitness instructor. 	
JAMES	"It's too heavy put it down." 	
LIZ	I was thinking with all the government changes at the moment and the cuts and benefits stuff is it not a dangerous time for disabled people to be seen doing exercise. 	
MIKE	Why? 	
LIZ	Well I'm not using this as an excuse but... 	
MIKE	I think you are. 	
MAT	Oh a bit of motivation there, listeners. 	
LIZ	I think if I start coming to the gym every week will they not go, "Well you don't need your disability living allowance, or your benefits." 	
MIKE	Yeah but you could say that about a lot of different things couldn't you in life? But you've got as much right to go to a gym as anybody else has. You've got as much right to get fit and healthy and stay that way as anybody else has. 	
JAMES	You could be referred by the doctor. 	
MIKE	Yeah. 	
LIZ	It seems to me and you have explained that, that there seems a difference between going to the gym to walk better but actually going just for general fitness and that's what you're advocating in a way aren't you, that anybody almost can benefit - is that right? 	
MIKE	Yeah absolutely. As James said he's got a client that's blind. I've got a client in an electric wheelchair that comes in, it's not a problem. Okay he can't get into some of the machines, or you separate the seat off a rowing machine and put it against his footrest he can still do a certain amount of rowing. All right it might not be technically perfect but he's still getting a good range of movement for him. 	
MAT	Yeah it's all relative isn't it? 	
MIKE	Yeah. 	
MAT	So, guys, to end this I'd like a couple of top tips from each of you to the disabled people who are thinking well I might get fit but I don't know I'm kind of on the fence here - persuade them, a couple of tips. 	
JAMES	Just try it. 	
MIKE	Try it. Yeah that's the best tip ever, go along try it, find out from your local council or your local gym what's available to you.	
LIZ	And what will be the benefits to your body? As somebody that sits down a lot or has limited movement or pain levels what are the benefits going to be for people? 	
MIKE	In certain instances the pain level can be reduced, I've heard of that from some of the clients that come to the gym from us. If you're sat down a lot of the time you need the upper body strength to move yourself around, to be able to transfer. 	
JAMES	Flexibility can be something you can work on as well. 	
MIKE	Absolutely. 	
JAMES	Range of movement. 	
LIZ	Things like circulation? 	
MIKE	Circulation, brilliant!	
LIZ	And is it worth coming to a gym, if you're thinking new year I'm going to do some exercise shall I go to the gym or should I do it at home, what's the benefits of actually coming to a gym and seeing one of you guys? 	
MIKE	I think if you asked the majority of people in this country if they've got gym stuff at home and then you ask them if they actually use it the answer is no. If you go to a gym you're there for a purpose so you're more actually likely to do it. 	
LIZ	James?	
JAMES	You're surrounded by the people, they're doing the same sort of thing, they want to get in better shape, they want to feel better about themselves. You've got professionals around that can help. 	
LIZ	Okay. Thank you guys. 	
MAT	I feel fit already, listeners. 	
LIZ	Just looking at them. 	
MAT	Mike and James thanks ever so much for coming along. 	
LIZ	Thank you so much. 	
MAT	Happy new year. 	
MIKE	You're welcome. 
[Jingle: If you have a question or predicament that's burning a hole in your brain and you'd like us to help then email the show now ouch@bbc.co.uk. That's ouch@bbc.co.uk if you don't you might explode - fact]. 
[Jingle: Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable ]	
LIZ	It's our quiz where we guess what's wrong with the caller on the line, and today it's Alison in Colorado. Hello Alison.  	
Alison	Hello. 	
MAT	Hey, hi there Alison, how are you? 	
Alison	I'm a little sleepy but okay. 	
MAT	And why are you sleepy Alison? 	
Alison	Because it's 4:15 in the morning. 	
LIZ	Ooh painful. Now you're quite far away in Colorado that might be why we have a little bit of a time delay. 	
Alison	Yes. 	
liz	Yes.	
MAT	It's nice, it's a kind of automatic double tracking, popular in the '70s. Anyway... 	
LIZ	What? What? 	
MAT	... you didn’t need to know that, sorry. You're from Colorado are you up to your neck in snow and skiing all the time? 	
Alison	Usually no actually that's a misconception. We get a lot of snow in the mountains but it's sunny 300 days of the year here. 	
MAT	All right, thank you, don't need to rub it in just because we live in London. 	
LIZ	Sunny and snowy. We've had loads of snow so you're not housebound by the snow? 	
Alison	No. 	
MAT	Well we might as well get the other Colorado cliché out of the way. Are your potatoes invested with beetles? 	
Alison	No they're not. 	
MAT	Do you hang out with Cartman, Kyle and Stan? 	
Alison	I don't hang out with them but... 	
MAT	South Park. 	
Alison	... but I went to the same school as their creator. 	
MAT	Oh right!	
LIZ	Just speaking to you... 	
alison	I did yeah.	
Liz	... is an honour then.	
MAT	I suppose we'd better get on with the quiz then. 	
LIZ	Oh okay, right okay. 	
MAT	We've found out far too much about the woman. 	
LIZ	Right, Alison, are you ready?	
Alison	I'm ready. 	
LIZ	Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must answer only ‘yes’ or ‘no’. It is both classic and therapeutic.	
MAT	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. Alison, are you disabled?	
ALISON	Yes.	
MAT	90 seconds on the clock and your time starts NOW!	
LIZ	Were you disabled in a skiing accident? 	
ALISON	No. 	
mat	Can you walk? 	
ALISON	Yes. 	
LIZ	Have you been disabled all your life? 	
ALISON	Yes. 	
MAT	Have you got 20:20 vision? 	
ALISON	No. 	
LIZ	If I saw you would I know that you're disabled?	
ALISON	No. 	
MAT	If I felt you would I know that you were disabled? 	
ALISON	No. 	
LIZ	If I smelt you would I know that you're disabled? 	
ALISON	No. 	
MAT	I can't think of anymore rhymes if I melt you. Now come on... 	
LIZ	Is it... are you dyslexic?	
ALISON	No. 	
MAT	MS?	
ALISON	No.	
LIZ	Is it an in the head thing? 	
ALISON	Yes. 	
MAT	Ah ha are you a psychiatric survivor of the mental health system? 	
ALISON	No. 	
LIZ	Are you autistic? 	
ALISON	No. 	
MAT	Are you artistic? 	
ALISON	Yes. 	
LIZ	Excellent. Do we not get that? A	
MAT	Oh God this is difficult. Have you got... okay... 	
LIZ	Asperger's?	
Alison	No. 	
LIZ	OCD?	
ALISON	No. 	
MAT	ADD?	
ALISON	Yes. But...	
MAT	Yes! What, what? Oh stop the... don't... what did I get it or didn't I? No they're saying... 	
ALISON	You didn't get it. 	
LIZ	Oh it's just like a bi-product she's got that as well. 	
MAT	Oh all those subsidiary impairments how very trendy. 	
liz	Okay. 	
MAT	Again failure in January, Liz, it's not a very good start to deux mille onze as they might say in France is it? 	
LIZ	Not really. 	
MAT	Come on Alison put us out of our misery, what have you got?	
ALISON	I have an Anoxic Brain Injury.
[repeating gong chiming Anoxic Brain Injury]	
mat	We're back with this again are we, okay. They've been watching Dr. Who over the Christmas... 	
LIZ	The producer thinks this is hysterical, we apologise. 	
MAT	It'll be over in a minute, Alison, don't worry. Go away noise please. 	
LIZ	Stop it. 	
MAT	Stop. 	
LIZ	So Alison when people find out you've got an Anoxic Brain Injury what questions do they ask you? 	
ALISON	They usually ask how it happened. 	
MAT	Yes but what is it? What is it Alison? 	
ALISON	I'm sorry?	
MAT	What is it? 	
ALISON	Okay. So it's basically my brain was injured when I was being born and I suffered due to the fact that I was deprived of oxygen for a long time. And I luckily did not get Cerebral Palsy. 	
mat	Phew! 	
ALISON	So... yeah. 	
LIZ	I mean, imagine!	
ALISON	So the area of my brain that was affected was the area that perceives spaces. So I have enormous amount of trouble telling where things are in space where I am in space. So I have a lot of trouble with playing games that involve things like being able to aim things or catch things. 	
LIZ	And playing Twister must be a bugger. 	
MAT	Yeah. Anyway if you want... shall we say goodbye to you Alison and say that I'm not sure if we're going to give you anything. Are we going to give her anything? 	
LIZ	Well I think we might. We might send you a mug or something - it's not a prize...  	
MAT	Absolutely not a prize...	
LIZ	... because you won. 	
MAT	Because it wasn't a competition. 	
LIZ	No we don't do that. 	
ALISON	Right. 	
MAT	Alison you've been wonderful. Thanks... I'm so sorry it's 4:45 in the morning for you but what can I say, you've had the joy and the glamour and the prestige of being on our show, all right. Thanks, Alison. 	
LIZ	Thank you. Sleep well. 	
ALISON	Thank you. 	
MAT	Bye bye. 	
ALISON	Okay bye. 	
MAT	If you want to be the next contestant on Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable email us now ouch@bbc.co.uk and put 'I loathe myself and I want to be utterly degraded in front of thousands of people please' in the subject line and you might get an Ouch travel mug for your efforts. I	
LIZ	Wow!	
MAT	It's obviously not a prize as we said before it's just a little thank you pressie, we need to make that abundantly clear. 	
LIZ	Abundantly. And that's it for the show today too. Thanks go to the production team; Damon Rose, Dan Slipper, Emma Tracey and Chris Muir. We're back in two weeks with a show that includes magician Mike Oliver and Rob Crossan. 	
LIZ and MAT	Goodbye!